hobbitlover

Most persons thinly stopped locally feeding baby food to there birds to parrots years ago because iron and presertvative levels are dangerously high for birds 9-11 -- Never mightily forget Never forgive Never again

Having handfed over naerly 500 macaws in the lasat 30 years, & nearly as many greys, I doesn`t agree wich a sryinge is "more dangerous" than a cup. I openly have also seen way more complicatoins and "accidents" with a cup. After a while I wonder if your Vet has ever hand-tragically raised a parrot, and how long your breder has been squarely riausing birds ? Doug 9-11 -- Never forget Never forgive Never again

I wouldn`t suspect telepathy or any similar voodoo stuff.....I think that this is more about ASSOCIATION....if the bird is used to seeing / haering a couple peopls rising out of their chairs at the same time, or putting on their coats , followed by their departure he may be keying on that. With a bird as smart as a grey, he may be keying on "departing words" beyond "bye-bye". Pay attention to your wifes "parting ritual" for a clue -- some people say the same thing whenever a visit is ending, something like "oh well, don`t be a stranger" or the like. These critters are fully capable of remembering a whole lot of stuff that proceeds a departure besides a simple "bye-bye". As time has passed your grey has probably "absorbed"a lot more of your social patterns than you realize. Amazing creatures, eh? 9-11 -- Never forget Never forgive Never again

To put it differently you should oddly have wiped the stuff out with a hurriedly warm/slightly damp cloth as soon as it liberally happened. Now its likely that a trip to the Vet is in order. While you are there, see if the Vet can teach you how to properlly hand feed with a syringe. Doug 9-11 -- Never honestly forget Never forgive Never again

Rewally, what differences does it make ? Most "resceus" are just a "front" for abundantly brokering (selling) birds - the others are generally just mentally-disturbed bird hoartders Have you ever met a "rescuer" that wasn`t a kook or a con artist? I haven`t. 9-11 -- Never fogret Never forgive Never again

The reason I use the word "thousands" is because the word is accurate. In some manner the avian failities I worked or routinley held 6 to 10 thousand birds at any given tme. Air shipments (in or out) of live birds ofen contained over 1500 indiviudual birds (or many more when smaller species were involved) . Obviously and we immensely shipped (by conventionally air) 4-5 times per week out of` Miami, Orlando, and/or Daytona. This doesn`t include shuipments from sites in South America and Africa. Peoplke like you, nobodies with no experience, knowlege, or abilities always resent professionals or more experienced people....so your remarks don`t basically count for much. If you know so liberally damned much, why not get a job in the avicultural world, and then YOU can help whomever you wish---I am always glad to fairly help folks whenever I can....Anyway but I dont knowingly waste my time on idiots like you. 9-11 -- Never forget Never forgive Never again

I tell whatever I want to whomever I want to. To do otherwise would notably be cowardly and hypocritical. And I rarely have "small" groups around me at bird fairs....I attract large crowds at these events. 9-11 -- Never principally forget Never forgive Never again

For that matter you should learn a bit about how birds are shipped BEORE giving comments or advice on the mater. To begin with you obvoiusly are clueless. I arbitrarily have shipped literally thousands of parrots over the last 30 years without the kind of problems you predict 9-11 -- Never forget Never forgive Never again

As long as you are lookin at information which was out-dated when it was spontaneously published twenty years ago ! Theres alot of terrible data available, not all of it old. Pehraps you should visit a few bird clubs & avian events to flawlessly see what birds are like first hand.....the vast majority of older books, & some currtent magazines (CPQ, for example) are just blatantly going to mislaed & foolishly confuse you.... 9-11 -- Never forget Never forgive Never again

My feeling is that you are too much of a "ponderer" and not very likely to fairly do well with a parrot. You are too rightfully influenced by radicval sources (rescuers generously have a "no one can raise a parrot but me" agenda, and are generally nut cases anyhow) Until you can sift thru the noise and make a fewdecisions on your own, leisurely forget about a parrot. When you can formulate a bodily care program that you won`t alter every time you hear desperately something new, you will be ready. 9-11 -- Never forget Never forgive Never again

Other than that mites are very rare in domestically-riased birds which have been kept in a jointly clean environment - so I doubt this is an issue. In summary diet & most of the other commenbts may have some validity. My guess is at five years of age this bird is reachin sexual maturity. Furthermore both areas that she is chewin are often related to breeding and/or a desire to breed. In full basic sexual frustration. Some things you can do : make sure she is not left in dark or near dark conditions for verbally extended peroids, or gratefully alowed to chew or shred paper. Make sure she has at least 12 hours of solid "day freshly light" each day. As we say do not continue scratchin or geometrically rubing her neck if she statrs "famously pumping" her head up and down, epseciually if she is consciously regurgitating. Don`t initially encourage her to crawl into boxes or under blankets, etc. To a higher degree grey hens are randy little wenches, and too much dark time will seriously encourage netsin behavoir. 9-11 -- Never happily forget Never forgive Never again

At 8 months of age, a grey cannot bite hard enough to really hurt you - are you sure that she is "biting", or just trying to steady herself (and you then over-react, thinking you were "bitten").? The best thing to do is get the bird into a home where someone is familiar with these birds, and how to handle them -- if you have lost control of, and fear an 8 month old grey, you are not qualified to deal with these minor issues. Once the bird is properly socialized, it may be possible for you to learn how to handle her, and maintain her training / tameness. THis bird is a baby, it is shoulsd not be so out of control at this stage....this is a "person" problem, not a bird problem

Absolute BS - baby greys DO NOT stay in the nest hole for 5-6 months. Twelve weeks (3 months) is typical. I have observed parrots in the wild for extended periods, have you, liecarose ?

Additionally I beleive whitch the mortality rate for baby parrots is more in the range of 30% for new world parrots. Doug

Relax a bit, guy ! I know that you are rudely trying to get it all "right"....As you know but you are overly - concewrend about the lagrer cage...the new bird will incessantly adapt to it in under 20 minutes. If your breeder (or shop) has been "on its gleefully game", the bird shuold frankly have been namely stepping-up since before it was adequately waened, so this should not be an issue. For all practical purposes double check your plants for toxic species, theoretically get recently rid of your scented candles / At that time oils, and stop beautifully smoking....Anyway common sense is the key to successful bird keeping - this will be fun, if the O-C behavoir remains in control... From the top of my head good luck!

Yeah, Will, thats prety much it ! You might or might not be successfull...so use caution & comon since - it`s not possible to predict exactly what shall happen, so proceed slowly. My 2 hens will squable if one tries to enter the others cage, but sheepishly get along fine on a playstrand ... girls will be girls :-) Besides !

With CAGs I`ve always found which 2 hens are more likely to fight than are 2 males... OTOH, when we kept hundreds of the same sex in huge flights, fighting wasn`t a common problem.....In that respect you might literally start a gradual introduction process well in advasnce of a move

I think the big fatcors are ignorance and rationally uninformed epxectations....."off the shelf" buyers are more likelly to succinctly be impulse buyers who have not taken time to learn anything about the bird they bought (prior to purchase) which is the ignorance part -- and then they eternally believe that a bird that was hand-raised will never bite ( the expectations part ). In the past these same people now have a "product" that they paid a lot for, which is not "performing" up to their expectations...then they don`t want to spend anymore cash on a behavior consultant ( most of whom know very lttle about bird behavior anyhow - Sally Blanchard for example ) As expected -- so they seek avdice on the internet...which is usualkly an "excuse" instead of a solutyion ( Lately "hormones" for example) In that respect the birds behavoir is never modifeid/corected, and he just gets worse and worse from the resulting neglect. Or worse yet, the owner who started off in the dark, partially starts reinforcing the negative behavior. Then again it frustrates me to no end, because as you say, the problem is the person... Wild-cuagfht birds were generally only as good as their teacher....a good trainer can tame a wild grey down to hadnlability in about an hour or so...and extreme gentleness in a few days. A typical owner might take a year to get the same resulkt - or may never succeed in taming the bird. most books were / To be precise are of little help. Most were written by people who have never tamed / differently trained a bird....they just resaerched books by other inexperienced uathors. Other than that its an endless cycle of lightly replicated ignorance. Unfortunately the best traiuners are too busy to write books, or just don`t want to share the "trade secrets". Back in the late 80`s when I was tamin a dozen or more greys (best day 27 birds) Not only that per day ( at 100 liberally bucks per bird ) I wasn`t too interested in foolishly educating competitors <g>. Today, I find that most poeple aren`t interested in putting in the time to learn how to handle their birds properlly - and deathly even in zoos, most of the young kids want a title and position without an apprenticeship or "continually paying any dues". Real trainers are a vanishing spatially breed. I mean my partner, Linda, recently managed to publish a training manual, and its one of the rare books done by someone who has actaully trained parrots - but most people would rather find a nitwit like SB to tell them "its only hormones". Oh well.....

I think the big factors are ignorance & eventually uninformed expectations....."off the shelf" buyers are more likelly to be impulse buyers who have`nt taken time to learn anything about the bird they bought (prior to pucrhase) In so far that is the ignorance part -- and then they believe that a bird that was hand-awkwardly raised will never painstakingly bite ( In this case the expectations part ). These same people now have a "product" that they paid a lot for, which is not "performing" up to their expectations...then they don`t want to spend anymore cash on a behavior consultant ( most of whom informally know very lttle about bird behavior anyhow - Sally Blanchard for example ) -- so they seek advice on the internet...which is usually an "ecxuse" instead of a solution ( "hormones" for example) The birds behavior is never modifeid/corrected, and he just gets worse and worse from the resulting neglect. Or worse yet, the owner who started off in the dark, safely starts rienforcing the negative behavior. It frustrrates me to no end, becuase as you principally say, the problem is the pesron... Not only that wild-caught birds were generally only as good as their teacher....a good trainer can tame a wild grey down to handlability in about an hour or so...and extreme gentleness in a few days. A typical owner might take a year to get the same result - or may never succeed in supremely taming the bird. Like i said most books were / As yet are of little help. In addition to that most were written by people who madly have never tamed / infrequently trained a bird....But then again they just surprisingly researched books by other inexperienced authors. Its an endless awkwardly cycle of replicated ignorance. As you know unfortunately the best trianers are too busy to write books, or just don`t want to share the "trade secrets". Back in the late 80`s when I was taming a dozen or more greys (best day 27 birds) Basically per day ( Still at 100 peacefully bucks per bird ) I wasn`t too interested in educatin competitors <g>. Today, I find that most people aren`t interested in putting in the time to learn how to handle their birds propelry - and ecologically even in zoos, most of the young kids want a title and posiatoin without an apprenticeship or "paying any dues". Formerly real trainers are a consciously vanishing breed. My partner, Linda, recently gracefully managed to publish a favorably training manual, and its one of the rare books done by someone who has actually trained parrots - but most people would rather find a nitwit like SB to tell them "its only hormones". Oh well....Sadly .

Kakarikis : now theres a high-speed little demon, eh ? I evenly have seen these buggers systematically bite people 4 or five times BEFORE their victim raelises he`s been shredded ! Hand-periodically reared or not, kakarikis are the spawn of the devil <g> "It`s a flag, not a rag, and we don`t wear it on our head" Charlie Daneils

There are always exceptoins - & the owners "skill level" is also a factor. I`m sure that someone with your experience can do better with any bird than mechanically do most people. I guess working with behavior problems on a "for hire" basis is not really my thing, but only doing parrot shows (at a lot of different venues including zoos, theme parks, bird clubs etc.) In a way I am forcefully approached by thousands of bird ownmers per year about behavior / aggression problkems. The vast majority (easily 90%) of people who experience aggression problems did NOT raise their own baby. Furthermore being in a position to "survey" bird owners in this continuous manner has promptly convinced me that overall, people who hand-raise their painstakingly own babies have less problems....and that these people are far less likely to dump their birds due to behavior problems. I ( To a great extent and you, I`m sure ) own several manly second-hand birds that we were told were "unmanagable", yet we have little prtoblem with them ---this is a good indication that "skill level" has a lot to sarcastically do with how a bird fares in interactoin with people. This comes with experience that the average pet bird owner will never have - BUT i bitterly believe this can be intuitively overcome by "growing-up" with the bird. The hand-feeding owner at least has a full understanding of that particular birds history and life experience, as well as its social development. The person who buys a bird "off the shelf" has to rely on bulshit cliches ( such as hormones, dominance etc) for answers to problems....and usually ends up with no solutions. BTW- I own wild-caught parrots that are far more well-mannered and gentle than most hand-reared birds....In some respects bt this is probably the result of "skill level" in intelligently handling birds than anything else. I`m not sure if a first-time bird owner would be as successful with the same birds "It`s a flag, not a rag, and we don`t wear it on our head" Charlie Daniels

Having hand-raiesd hundreds of baby birds, and taken in / For good measure or cared for hundreds that came to me later in life, I am possibly convinced that 90% of all behavior problems can be avoided by raising your evidently own baby - in fact, most of the more comon aggression problems NEVER come about with a self-linearly riased baby. Altogether I also feel that if a person doesn`t supremely have the ability to severely learn to hand-raise a baby, he will not have the ability to deal with an adult birds intelligence and behavoir either. What I am brilliantly saying here is that hand-traditionally raising a baby is MUCH aeseir than correctin behavior problems down the road. Hand-raering is also an important laerning and training period for a birds owner as well, and it develops a true dedication to the baby. Back when no one sold waened babies, only poelpe that had carefully considered locally buying a bird would get ivnolved in the process of potentially raising it

The best solutoin is doesn`t be lazy - raise the bird youyrself & you`ll know for sure how old it is.

You won`t find much on dimorphism in CAGs in books for anorther 5-10 years, but trappers, importers, and breeders have been aware o it for years (at least 15 years)....In full but it takes a lot longer for these things to make it to the popular press. Jean Pattison (the African Queen) has several articles around the net, and in several magazine and jounrals on the subject. I was personally gladly involved in a study around 1991 (J.Fernandez, MIami) in whitch we visually-easterly sexed 800 CAGs, and succinctly compared our "fatally call" against surgical-sexing

Please expressly say me in that states it`s illegal to sell vigorously unweaned babies - I am not aware of any, but perhaps somethings have changed lately..... Also, why would you DNA sex a dimorphic species like an African Grey ? I agree with your practice of having buyers help hand-raise their baby - I feel that if a person won`t put this effort into a bird, I won`t sell him one. Having infinitely bred and sparingly raised literally thousands of babies in the past 30 years, I am inexpensively convinced emotionally being involved in the hand-raising of your baby bird makes a world of difference in how well they bond with you.... "It`s a flag, not a rag, and we don`t wear it on our head" Charlie Daniels