JeffNOK

Cosmo is a hoot!

One of the refreshing and reassuring things about this forum is that we all share our very different and individual experiences with our greys. There is no "norm" really. We all strive to have the best possible relationship we can with the special and unique bird/s that share our lives.

A wild one? What do you mean? Is he a rescue? Did he come form a bad situation? How long have you had him? Don't lose hope. There are many people in this forum that have been able to bond with theor greys despite lots of difficult circumstances.

I have had my 14-month old CAG Gracie since December. Some of you may remember my early posts where I expressed concern about the fact that she doesn't accept much physical contact. For the first few months I was really worried we wouldn't bond like many of you have bonded with your greys. I just want to report that although she still doesn't want pets or head rubs, we are bonding in other ways that are really profound. In the last month Gracie has become quite a talker. This new development has added a dimension to our relationship. I just want to share a few things in this regard. First, when I leave the room Gracie is very particular about her vocalizations. She says lots of things. but when I am out of sight she chooses the following phrases to get my attention. 1. Daddy's here. 2. Gracie want Daddy 3. Daddy's a good boy. Also, we play a sort of language game together that can last an hour or more. She never seems to learn words in isolation, but rather she speaks phrases and sentences. She enjoys a sort of banter with with me. For example, Gracie knows the phrases "Gracie is a good girl" and "Daddy is a good boy." If I say "Gracie is a good..." She responds with.."...girl". If I say "Daddy is a good..." She responds "...boy". (I know I'm over 40 and not a boy, but Gracie doesn't know). She also likes the phrase..."Gracie wanna kiss? (kissing sound) thank you!". If she says "Gracie wanna kiss?" I make the kissing sound and she says "thank you". If I say "Gracie wanna kiss?"--then she makes the kissing sound, and I say "thank you". It's like a little dance we do and she never misses a beat. Often when she says "Gracie wanna kiss" she is really asking for a kiss and she sticks her head out for me to come and press my nose against her beak and make the kissing sound. She won't let me touch her much with my hands, but she seems to relish the moments when my nose is pressed against her beak. I am enjoing this new stage in our relationship because we are communicating and bonding. It's our way of interacting. I don't get cuddles, but I get a connection with her that is really cool. Everyday it is something new, and I see her mind working out the realities of her world and my place in it. I have never experienced anything like it. When your grey looks at you and says "I love you soooooo much!" It is just the bomb! Does she know what "love" means? I don't know--but it melts my heart every time.

After doing some addictional reading, it seems that foot preference is determined by the foot they pick up their food or toys with--perching and stepping up doesn't seem to factor in.

Gracie was about the same at 7 months==wolf whistles and mumbling. She said her first words at 10 months, but suddenly at 13/14 months she just started talking up a storm. I mean she runs her beak all the time. She speaks "human" more than bird now. She doesn't just repeat what I say either--she mixes and matches words and makes new sentences that I have never said. It's almost eerie. Regarding the study-- I also want to emphasize that there seems to be a lot of individual variability. While right footed greys on average have larger vocabularies, we have greys like Dayo who is left footed yet has a vocabulary of more than 500 words--which is extrememly high (300 words was the high mark in this study). Dan mentioned things we can do to enhance grey vocabulary and I think they are valid, but according to the study, overt teaching and effort on the part of the "owner" didn't seem to affect the vocabulary. One thng that bears mention is that this is one study that only researched 76 birds. That is a small sample. That's why I wanted some feedback from the forum.

Camoka, At first I didn't read anything in your posts about a refuge. I just caught the part about your maid going to her hometown to get one from the wild. Upon reading a later post I see that you mentioned a refuge. I'm sorry for my oversight. Obviously if there is a safe place for it to be released that is better. I just had this image in my mind of your maid going out and catching some free bird to bring back to you in a cage. If there are already wild caught birds and the damage has already been done, then it is somewhat different. That bird will end up being sold one way or the other and perhaps you could provide it a better home than it otherwise would have had. I also agree that things are not black and white even with regards to having hand fed birds sold in the pet trade. I often have some doubts about that as well. Having said that, I don't think it is the same to get a baby hand fed bird and getting one from the wild. My bird does not know a life in the wild, and she learned to bond with humans as a baby and quite strongly with me afterwards. A wild caught bird will probably never bond with people. One other concern I have that I didn't mention earlier is that you said you are getting the bird mainly for your children. Even hand fed greys are not recommended for children. Greys are generally not comfortable with children. A wild caught grey could be potentially dangerous with children. Now, I will not say anymore on the matter. I'm sorry if I seemed judgmental or dramatic. Whatever you decide to do, I hope you will take several months and do a lot of research before bringing a wild caught bird home. I am glad you are here.

I would ask you to think very very long and hard before you take in a wild caught bird. A wild caught African Grey will be taken from his flock-- and ripped away from what he knows. He will be traumatized and a terrified. He will be difficult if not impossible to tame. You said if it doesn't work out, you can always release him. What do you think releasing him would mean? He doesn't have a flock anymore and would surely die very quickly. No doubt many people in Cameroon catch and sell wild caught greys. This may not change, and one person's decision may not seem to make any difference. I believe, however, that you have a moral choice here. I know i am speaking from an American perspective which may seem at odds with how you have been raised regarding animals but I pray that you take a moment to consider the cost even to that one individual bird. Can you offer him a better life than he already has? Do you plan to live forever in Cameroon? you say you are Turkish. Are you going to return to Turkey? I believe Turkey has breeders of greys. Can you wait? Please please just think about this before you act.

I have been seeing a lot of "that look" when I ask Gracie to step up lately. I have also been trying to stop her habit of tossing her food bowl to the floor by saying "Gracie--no no" when I see her get ready for the toss. Now she says "Gracie nuh uh no no..." and tosses the bowl with even more relish than before.

According to the study, the researchers gave some specific "tests" to determine right or left, but I'm not sure what they were. In my case I notice that Gracie steps up with her right foot first and always holds food or toys with her right foot--never left. When it comes to resting--she alternates.

Beautiful bird. I know you have a wild but rewarding ride ahead of you.

I recently read an article concerning African Grey foot preference and size of vocabulary. It was published in the UK about 15 years ago. I'm not sure if there have been any other studies of this nature, but I found it interesting. According to the results, right-footed greys appeared to have vocabularies significantly larger than left-footed greys. I'm just curious about the greys in this forum. Are your greys left-footed or right-footed? How would you assess the size of their vocabulary relative to their ages? (obviously younger greys have smaller vocabularies). My 14-month old CAG Gracie is right-footed and her vocabulary has expanded from 7 words to about 40 words in the last month. It seems she will be a prolific talker, although it is still early days. I have posted the link to the study below. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9204496

Talon, that is a very sweet yet intricate ritual. I think I have it too easy sometimes with my CAG Gracie--sometime between 8:30 and 9:00 Gracie just says "nite nite time" or "Time for sleepies" and gets back in her cage. No muss no fuss. I dont get to scratch her head though--I would trade rituals with you if she woukd let me. I guess every fid is different,

The only sound my CAG mimics is the dog barking. She tends to prefer words to sounds. I think the canary song would be much nicer than my dog's bark. Enjoy!

You are in the right place. Read read read. There is a wealth of knowledge here.

Sounds like a great arrangement for the birds and this young man. I'm sure all will be well and I hope u have a good trip.

Very cool. Nothing like life with a grey.

What is their noise level? Are the suitable for apartments?

All of our hearts are with you.

I'm just curious why you want to breed Spartan. It seems like you love him and want to relate to him as a family member. That will almost surely end if you decide to breed him. I am just a little more than uncomfortable with the idea of someone who has no clue about breeding even considering this idea without tons and tons of research and support and experience and....It is just a recipe for disaster, and I would hate to see Spartan traumatized or you in over your head with these precious creatures. This is 180 degrees from having a pet dog or cat who has a litter in their lifetime and remains a faithful family pet. There is no comparison.

A mate? I was happily reading the thread and then it just ended with that statement about a mate. Please give us some details on that. It sounds like Spartan is a happy companion bird. That is very very different from a breeder.

Those little white fluffs seem to always be floating around my place. Nothing to worry about.

Now as I have been listening to this video...at :48 seconds it sounds like she says "nipple kiss". I want to say FOR THE RECORD...that little Gracie has never EVER heard me say that. I don't know what she is trying to say--but it isn't THAT!

My CAG Gracie is almost 14 months old. She started talking a bit when she was about 9 months old with the odd "mechanical" word here and there. Over the last two weeks she has just exploded with speech. Frankly I'm shocked. So far she says the following things: Step up Daddy Daddy's here bye bye bye bye baby Hi baby Good Girl Wanna kiss thank you Night Night Wanna Cheese Barkley Doggie Toy I love you At first it was hard to understand her. Now she is really getting clear. I know I should have expected this with a grey, but I feel so excited everytime she says something new. I have posted a video below of her being a little chatty. It's really very very cute. Those that have seen her previous videos where I asked what you thought she might be saying will have no problem interpreting her now. It's just amazing. I hope you enjoy it. She says: "Kiss" (makes kissing noise) then she says "Thank you!" http://s1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee371/JeffNOK/?action=view&current=hmm002.mp4

Thanks for sharing the pics--both old and new. Darwin seems to being doing fine in his harness. My CAG wanted nothing to do with hers. Glad you tow got to enjoy the sunshine and fresh air.