FirstPenguin

Do you know which one you have? If not what are the rough dimensions?

No it's most likely the same. Talon referred to he, As in Jeff, the head of the company, the guy who does most or all of the phone work. All from the same 1990s style, poorly designed, full page ad that's been in birdtalk for ages. I've asked well regarded avian vets, and they either haven't heard of JWR or highly doubt the lofty claims made. Think about what an air filter does. There are no means for an end user to measure the performance of an air filter, except for the effect or user experience. This does not prove the claims or effectiveness of a product, this is merely an anecdotal observation. So the filter takes some dust out of the air. The 60 dollar honeywell filter from home depot could potentially do the same thing and have the same user experience. Therefore, a product like an air filter, can make huge claims and charge for them because it takes a lot of lab work to prove those claims. I've spoken with a bird shop owner who uses 20 inch box fans covered with a pre-filter type foam on the intake side of the fan. This results in reduced dust and dander build up in her bird area. It doesn't take much for a basic air filter to give noticeable results. Beyond that initial effect it's hard to measure whether all those bells and whistles you paid for are really working. Like so many of you we want whats best for our fids. However, clean air is clean air whether you're a human with asthma or a sensitive parrot. For that reason something marketed to parrot owners and parrot owners only is highly suspect. Why would a company produce a device just for birds when multiple industry's and disciplines could benefit from it. At this point I'll leave it at that and post a separate thread for this since it's veered off subject wise.

I agree sleep cages aren't necessary if you have a bird room type setup but are more beneficial than most people think. I feel only water is necessary in a sleep cage. Toys can potentially cause night frights if they're bumped, make noise, or otherwise spook your bird while sleeping. If the cage is properly covered there really isn't any need for toys unless you plan on your bird spending waking hours in this cage.

might be overkill but we use the kings cage aluminum travel cages. There built like a tank.

So sorry to hear about your bad news. However.... DO NOT BUY JWR AIR SYSTEMS!!!! THIS COMPANY IS A SCAM! The product might work but by work I mean it turns on and blows air. I could build something does the same things with 60 bucks worth of hardware. The man behind it is dishonest and should not be trusted with your credit card information. On top of that the products scream snake oil. The marketing an support documents I know for a fact this guy says one thing and does another. He charges refills of filters with out your authorization and then speculates as to what went wrong. If you want to know more contact me. Read this.... http://www.preciouspetstores.com/Profile/2587/

Thanks for all the advice. Quick update if you're interested. We're now both somewhat more open to either subspecies. However, my GF is still against shipping a bird. She's against ever putting a young bird through the ordeal, period, and we both would like to visit more than once before bringing a fid home so something more local would be ideal. Like some of you, that greatly limits our options. I found a CAG breeder who doesn't clip located within 2 hours that we like based on a few emails. This would make more than one weekend visit possible. We were hoping a breeder within an hour of us who breeds both sub-species would be open to not clipping. They wrote back saying they wouldn't, citing experience as an LVT seeing broken beaks and hearing about lost birds, and that I can let the feathers grow back. Which I respect their opinion, but the whole point is your fid fledges and grows up right.

Does she bath herself or do you mist her at all?

Having space for a bird to hide or some sort of screen to stay behind is advised for even the best cared for birds. Maybe a larger bird tent? http://www.avianhavenhut.com/photos.html something inside the cage might be a nice transition later on if in fact she shows a preference for the covered area for a while.

We use Avitech heating panels during the winter nights. They're similar to a heating lamp (both infrared based) but much safer to use in close proximity. We use the smallest one on her smaller sleep cage, which could easily be a hospital cage. The panel consumes less power than a standard light bulb and her space stays plenty warm. The larger panels consume a bit more power but are the same or less than a lamp, and nothing compared to the draw of a space heater. They're a bit pricier but a very useful multi-purpose tool where your bird is concerned. Keep in mind I'm not saying this would be better than a lamp or pad for an ill bird. Just offering it as a 3rd option. http://www.avitec.com/Avi-Temp-Infrared-Heat-Panels-p/ihp.htm

I'm aware of those risks. My understanding is that the Congos are far more likely to switch and specifically one gender or the other I can't remember which. Is your grey a CAG or a TAG? My reasoning still holds some water. If you're taking on a rehome it would make sense for them to go a home with a similar type of person taking care of them.

Thanks for all the responses. Ray P: It's good to hear about a CAG who travels. We got our Sennie in August 2009 and my girlfriends family usually gets together over labor day weekend about about two hours away. This was something we hadn't thought much about since it was such a yearly habit for her. So we just took her with and have been going back and forth with her ever since. This isn't just a car ride, it often involves riding commuter rail in her carrier. She handles it like a pro. JDS567: Looks aren't as important as size is. My GF prefers smaller and I want larger because we have all the compact flying mischief we need in our sennie. My dad raised Newfoundlands when I was a kid so I guess no matter what kind of animal I'm dealing with, I lean towards the bigger ones. We found Evie a week before my GFs birthday, she too was the last of her clutch. I told her she could have this Senegal I found or something with wrapping paper on it, most likely a nintendo wii. The picture did her in. We met a Timneh recently at a bird store that, had the money been in our pocket, would have come home with us. Not that we are a fan of buying from a bird shop. We really do want to go visit breeders but we're still stuck on getting a bird that is unclipped from the start. So we're just starting to write local breeders to see if they'll even consider selling a grey unclipped. The breeders we like the most so far (that advertise this stuff) are in places like texas, california, and south of the mason dixon line.

What kind of camera did you get? Did you daylight or regular incandescent lamps providing light? I might be able to help.

Thanks for the response it definitely helps. That is also a concern of mine which I've expressed elsewhere. The breeders we're most impressed with aren't in the area and some are CAG only.

So I've rehashed this and mentioned it before on a few other posts, but the debate of whether to get a Timneh or Congo Grey rages on. At this point we'll probably wait till sometime during the first half of 2011 to pull the trigger. Money, work, time, holiday travel, make it ill advised this year. So we're thinking of going with a breeder early next year. So my girlfriend and I are both bird people, with one fid. The second fid would be "my fid" hopefully. She wants a Timneh, I want a Congo. I've always been attracted to larger more animated birds like cockatoos and macaws. We can never have a huge flock with our current situation and we both want a grey. My fear is if we go with a Timneh I'll get an itch for another bird later on. After spending time with a stubborn adventurous Senegal, the larger more contemplative Congo's are my current leaning. A couple factors we're considering... We travel with our Sennie to visit family. Our sennie is a pro-traveler. We will be allowing full flight. We both have careers and rely on the other in a pinch to take care of the flock. more to come... So any opinions about caring for greys as a couple, and of course any timneh vs congo commentary is welcomed. We've done a lot of reading but are always looking for anecdotal info. After spending time on this forum I really believe some of the usual Congo negatives are the result of poor rearing and improper fledging and clipping. Thanks for reading.

I only go to the big chains in a pinch. They're usually over priced and a poor selection low quality for bird related stuff. Many of them sell birds from some parrot mill. However they've stopped selling puppies and kittens because of the bad PR it's received in the past decade. I don't see why birds should be any different. Just my two cents.

That's a really good idea. I could see how some of the heavier duty infant toys would work. I'd look the toy over very carefully, probably use a pair of pliers on them first to simulate how they'll react to heavy duty beak. My friend has a 2 year old and some of her toys can stand up to her but I wouldn't give them to my bird. Those Dora explorer toys are a bunch of junk They've got small exposed screws that a bird would zero in on and remove eventually. However, isn't Walmart the one who was caught by a consumer group selling lead contaminated children's toys? http://consumerist.com/2010/10/walmart-removes-lead-tainted-toys-from-shelves-but-only-in-california.html

Welcome Mark. As said before, where's the toys? Bambino looks greyt. A well populated cage with toys and other things to do not only keeps a bird busy, but also gives them a sense of security. While a bird needs space to move around they also need denser areas where they can hide. I weave shreddable material into the cage bars not only to play with but to add security. Cage placement also influences they're sense of security. Placing a cage in the corner is actually ideal. Some birds hate having their cages infront of windows since it leaves them (from their perspective) exposed on all sides. All of the perches that came with any cage I've owned are collecting dust in my closet. Your grey spends every sleeping and waking moment on it's crazy dinosaur feet. Different kinds of perches (diameter, texture, hard vs soft) help keep those feet healthy. Is your bird currently clipped? Sleep is very important. Not everyone puts as much stock in it as I do. Since I'm in a small apartment and keep odd hours in the same space we have a small sleep cage that we keep in a ventilated closet away from the main space. Since we're in a city we keep a white noise machine near by to keep a more consistent soundscape. We cover that and have specialized heating panel in the winter. In the wild they play and feed in a different spot from where they roost so it's very natural to have a designated sleep cage. This will help keep your grey from becoming cage territorial. This is just the way I do it, it's not absolutely necessary. I would atleast cover the cage and keep it quiet for atleast 10 hours, 12 ideally. They need more sleep than we do.

Thanks so much! Sorry to be a nervous paront and hijack a thread the second something sounds vaguely similar. All the info you post is very informative and you point out how much bad info and old wives tales are floating around. This also reminds me it's humidifier time here in the northeast. Thanks.

Just lurking about until the time is right to get a grey. Dave I was hoping you could go into more detail about the excessive yawning and rubbing the head. We've seen our Senegal do a long yawn where she stretches her beak open and elongates her neck in what seems like an exaggerated fashion, she'll do this several times in row. She also rubs her beak on hard and soft surfaces alike but that I think is normal. Is that the different or the same as what you mean by rubbing of the head. She's just over a year old and had her yearly check-up quite recently with an avian specialist who said she passes with flying colors. We asked about the yawning but they didn't find our description of it as any cause for alarm. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks. EDIT: ALSO, she rubs her head and cheeks on her toys sometimes. But she likes to be petted and preened with found objects. When we offer her like a popsicle stick or a baby carrot even she'll put her head down for a scratch. So we figured she was petting herself with her toys.

Thanks for all the responses. As stated several times before in other posts we really want a grey who's never been clipped. We already have the Evil Knievel equivalent of a senegal. She can fly down a narrow hallway, turn around in mid air in the same space and land where you didn't think possible. This logic may be way off, but we don't want a new grey to be more nervous due to height insecurities since our ace pilot is buzzing around overhead and he or she is grounded. On top of that we have many other "newer age" ideas about raising and caring for parrots. From how long they're in the nest box, to how they're socialized, the list goes on. Vampire, love spencers blog. Our Sennie Evie friended Spencer on facebook.

I would have a field day with a computer scammer like that. One, I don't own a single windows machines just mac and linux. Second, I too like to play games with the more obnoxious telemarketers add to that a scam, it would be no holds barred. I they're raising money for a good cause I cut them a brake. Selling diet pills, watch out! This is the grey forum after all. Has anyone put their parrot on the phone with a telemarketer? That would be youtube GOLD.

I love more obscure movie and TV references for pet names. Invader zim, even better. I personally would of gone with the more obvious Grr. Tacitos!!!!

Well outside of the house she is, but if greys are as smart as people say a week or so of observing her habits at home should do the trick. Kidding aside she's already got a fid glued to her shoulder. Does that influence a Grey? Or will there be a potential love triangle? Thanks for the response.

Understood, we're actually in a similar situation. We're in a small 1 bedroom NYC apartment, we try and give Evie 12 hours of darkness and as little fluctuation in the... soundscape around her. We're crazy like that. It really doesn't take up much space to do. We just put this travel cage on the top shelf of a closet away from our main space and cover it. It helps in the winter since we can use a small heating panel to heat just that small space and not worry how the main space fluctuates in an older building.