Girltron

Boy, I've been too busy to read posts the last day or so, and there's certainly a lot I've missed. I found Crossfit's posts absolutely helpful and right on target with what I was looking for, and I hope she doesn't stop posting on this site. I didn't think she sounded like a know it all. Just someone with helpful experience. I'm going to persevere with the techniques I've put into place, crossfit's reassured me that the frequency increasing isn't a sign that I'm doing the wrong thing. Having a sleep cage and an 8:30 bedtime is a REAL help. Francis has time to be talkative after he's eaten his dinner, and yes he does make the noise along with many others, but he goes to bed before he drives my husband batty and it's good for Francis too to have uninterrupted sleep. Also he sleeps until after Frank goes to work in the a.m. so he's not greeted by the same noise first thing in the morning. Even if Francis never stops making this noise my husband's only in contact with him is during good playtime and doesn't hear that noise often enough to really get bothered by it now. You're right Greywings, Francis IS a lot quieter immediately after a bath. It doesn't last all that long though...he gets his bath in the morning, and still manages to squeeze in 140 or so squeaks along with plenty of other sounds before I leave for work! It's okay though, I'm looking at that as a good time for reinforcing the fact that I like some noises and not others.

Thanks Dave, I appreciate it. He has very little patience with forums, even when it pertains to his work. It's enough if I get an idea of what works for others, and pass it along to him.

Don't forget that the next 2 months will be spent with Francis and me training my husband too...and there may not be a manual on parrots, but I could sure write one on him. Yes, this noise is a problem for him. No, I don't understand why he can't ignore it. No, I'm not sure it'll go away. But Francis is happy, and my husband likes him, and now that a good sleep schedule has been enacted they come into contact mostly during "parrot time", when Francis is more likely to want to shred paper and toss blocks than whistle anything. He goes through his repertoire after his dinner too, but not to the extent that he does in the morning. So I think my husband will be fairly well conditioned to the sound in a couple of months now that we have a decent schedule worked out, but I do hope it lessens a demonstrable amount. The final total for an hour and a half this morning was 138 of those noises, though that was really only probably one in ten or more of the sounds he actually made during that time. He's got a big vocabulary of whistles.

Eh. Maybe. I'm having issues with my flip camera at the moment. It sounds just like someone dropping a penny into a tin cup, only louder. We're up to 81 times now. Wince. 82.

I understand. There shouldn't be a problem reducing this noise in 2 months, I would think. If it doesn't get less in the next 2 months, my husband will definitely be asking our friends to take back Francis. This isn't something I'm going to likely be able to prevent. To put this into perspective, in past hour Francis has made this sound 64 times, and the morning's not over yet. The only things we've been able to think of to do are making sure he's getting enough sleep, good light, plenty of attention and feedback when he's making good noises, and silence when he makes the bad noise.

Well, hopefully that will work. I'm not really amused by the "get rid of the husband" jokes though. Learning to live with a new animal is stressful and it's not his fault that a specific sound is like nails on a chalkboard to him. He doesn't deserve to dread coming home at night, so I'm asking a lot right now. Yesterday I installed an Avian Sun light and we introduced Francis to his new sleep cage nice and early. With good sleep and good light, plus tons and tons of attention during our "parrot time" after work, I hope the noise will lessen. I've got two months basically to try to teach him to do it less. Believe me, too, I'll be keeping track of the number of times he does the noise each day. Last night he didn't do it at all while we were playing with him.

How can I be sure he's understanding us? I mean what if he just doesn't notice that it's THAT noise we don't like? I really just have to get him to do it much less often, we're not expecting him to totally stop. But the noise got more frequent since we started trying to ignore him when he does it. I wondered if that was the first part of his learning process, but a lot of other things have changed for him in the past two weeks too. There's no telling. Among other things, my husband has had to stop handling Francis almost completely, because of Francis' tendency to go into mating displays around him. That might have been enough to prompt an annoyance noise, right?

Ugh. Francis has been great the last couple of weeks, but I've got a major problem brewing. He makes one particular noise that my husband can't stand. It's a kind of high pitched squeak that might be an imitation of the sound his cage doors make when we unlatch them. We've oiled them so now they're silent, but he still makes the noise. I've told my husband the best thing is to ignore him when he makes that noise, and praise/talk to him when he makes others. The thing is, since we've been trying to do that (several days) it's almost like the noise happens MORE, not LESS. Last night we had a big fight about it because my husband actually sort of flips out when he hears it, and told me he dreads coming home because it's the first noise he hears in the morning and the last one he hears at night. He wouldn't even say goodbye to Francis this morning when he left for work. He wanted to call our friends and ask them to take him back first thing this morning. This is the same man who read two books on parrots and worked like mad to make his home ready for him on the first day. The man Francis absolutely adores. I need to know how long it should normally take for Francis to understand and adjust his behavior. Is there anything more we can do to speed up the process? If I can tell my husband to wait it out for a specific length of time, that might help. In addition, he makes pretty constant contact calls of all sorts, even when we're right in front of him. I've been starting to selectively not answer them because I think it's becoming a bid for attention, but I wonder if it's too confusing to train more than one behavior change at a time.

So...I'd like to attach a little excel file I've been working on, in a post I was planning on making over in the nutrition area. I gave it a whirl earlier and the process is mystifying me. What magic do I need to know in order to successfully attach my file?

Thanks! I never thought of using water first. I'll try that tomorrow. I didn't notice the feathers looking funny until I'd done daily baths for several days, so if I give him a rinse each morning before his aloe I bet it'll be fine.

Puppy pads are a great idea! I mostly use the ad section of the newspaper because Francis loves to look at the pictures, but I have tons of puppy pads around so I may try that. The other thing I've used is the brown paper I get at Lowe's that's designed for painters to cover floors with. You can get big rolls of it for quite cheap, we keep it for all kinds of tasks. It's easiest to just make a cardboard form the size of your cage tray, and cut many at a time so you just have a stack of papers to grab from each day. The brown paper looks nicer than newspaper, I must say.

A little guidance on bathing with aloe vera juice? I've got myself a gallon of the Lily of the Desert brand aloe juice. For the past several days, I've given Francis a spray bath with it, trying to be fairly liberal since I can't tell how much is reaching his skin. He prefers to be sprayed from underneath and he will fluff out his feathers some, but he doesn't really open his wings so most of it gets on his belly, tail, and the edges of his wings. I'm trying to prevent feather chewing and plucking and I hope this will help resolve any dryness that might have caused him to pluck in the past. My issue is starting yesterday I noticed his tail feathers especially have started looking a little piecey and bedraggled. It's almost as if the aloe is making him a little gunky or something. It's definitely not oily but maybe a tad sticky? Would you recommend alternating water bath days with aloe bath days?

Our Francis has two very odd habits. The first one, which he does when he really likes something (when we talk to him or when I play Duke Ellington. He loves Duke Ellington) is a kind of dance. He holds onto the cage bars with his beak, and marches up and down with his feet, and flaps the bend/shoulder parts of his wings. The second one might be sort of frustrating to him. He gets up high in his cage, but not as high as he CAN go, and then stretches his foot as high as possible as if straining to touch the ceiling. He's too low to touch the ceiling though so he just strains and strains until it looks like his leg cramps up, and then he lowers and stretches out his leg and clenches his foot for a minute before trying it again. I have a theory about this one, though. His previous owners kept him in a small, round cage with a dome top. He lived in it for nearly 10 years as I understand it. I'm wondering if he's trying to feel for the domed area that used to be right above his head on his highest perch? We've tried putting those rope perches really high up and he does love them, but he still does this thing that we're starting to call Parrot Pilates. I've filled the roof of the cage with dangling toys and cardboard to chew but it doesn't stop him from doing this when he's not playing.

This is great! As far as his wings, he's not clipped at all. He's done himself some damage and his wings are uneven, so he goes thump! when he tries to fly at all. Very distressing. Heh, i guess we'll be getting used to a cowbell. As far as his previous owners, I do care about them quite a bit but I must say I agree with your assessment. Their other bird, something they call a "ringneck" which is quite pretty actually, is mean and has a screaming problem.

Oh thank you Dave, this was very helpful. Let me see if I can fill in some blanks: Gender unknown at this time. Yes, behavior has diminished slightly since coming home with us. I agree, it's early days yet. Age is known to be over 10 years. Previous owners did not handle or speak to Francis, due to his habit of biting everyone who came within range. I think they just didn't introduce themselves nicely, but... Last night's play time was good. I opened the cage, locked up the cats and dog, and just let him do what he wanted while I cleaned the cage and made his dinner. Pretty soon he was sitting on the doorframe but it's too high for him to jump and there's no foot/beakholds for him to climb down. So later we spread a blanket out and put a puzzle for him on the floor, and lifted him down. I did more handling than my husband, and every time he started to squeak we handed him a puzzle piece and named the color for him. He would take each piece and chuck it, but it would distract him somewhat. He also started exploring out a bit from the immediate cage area. All in all, much diminished sexual type reactions. Because of another problem (he's spooking and trying to fly suddenly) I'm no longer carrying him around the house with me during the day. That will probably come again once he knows the territory well and isn't so scared. We basically do about half hour to an hour of playtime each night, and now we're going to be concentrating on training him to think of this is non sexual terms. Games and learning. He does a thing: constant contact calls, even when we're within visual distance, all day long. Luckily not at night. But we dutifully answer them, unless he uses a particular piercing squeak that we don't want to encourage. I assume this is a good habit to be in. I'm certainly getting better at whistling. I'm not sure why he wants to keep track of us so very much but I assume he's still nervous in a new house. His previous owners didn't really answer contact calls, though, so maybe he's just relieved that we know how to behave. (Oh hey, won't a cowbell make us crazy?!) Thanks again!

Well...this doesn't seem to apply too well. Francis has displayed ALL those symptoms for months, the squeaking and regurgitating, even when all we did was talk to him through the cage bars with no contact whatsoever. And like I said, aside from offering a finger to nibble or ruffling his neck feathers when he asks us to, we aren't doing any "petting" because Francis isn't familiar enough with us at this time. We do need to develop the ability to touch and manipulate at least to the point where we can inspect him for injury or administer medicine or whatever, but right now we're not trying to do anything other than just entertain him with out of cage time, talking, and toys.

OK, thanks. We thought we'd play "pass the parrot" a little tonight. Actually he's still quite fond of me, and tonight when I got home I opened up the cage and reached in just to let him give me a nibble and say hi, but he stepped right onto my hand and then wanted to cling to me instead of going back onto his perch! I'm nervous still that he'll fall, and also he kept regurgitating so I kept it short and showed him one of his new toys, which tempted him to step off my hand for a minute. I've left the cage open and I'd like to see if he'll come climbing out on his own. The regurgitating is the part I can't quite figure out. I mean he does it constantly! More so if it's been awhile since he's seen either of us. How can we reward him for NOT doing it, if he's always doing it!? One of his new toys is an interactive one, http://www.birdsafestore.com/Products/The-Teacher__FM213.aspx and I hope he's so interested in it that he forgets to stare at us and hiccup seeds at us.

I started a longish thread in the "new" area about my newly adopted Grey, Francis. It came about that some of his actions are sexual in nature and should be discouraged, but I'm wondering if someone could give us some pointers to help make this easy. We've known Francis a year. We've been actively giving him treats and holding him in or near his cage at my friend's house about 6 months. We brought him home with us 7 days ago. Since he first got to know us, he has regurgitated like crazy whenever we even go near him. My friend who owned him told us this was a sign of affection so we never tried distracting him from it! He also used to shiver, squeak, droop his wings, and carry on for both of us but since we've brought him home and since we've both been handling him, he's been quiet around me and only done the "dance" when my husband is talking to him or holding him. Neither of us have touched him in any of the off limits areas. We simply let him perch on hand or arm, maybe ruffle his neck feathers, and talk to him. Last time he got this way, he became slightly possessive about my husband, giving me a warning nip when I offered "step up". We're only beginning to handle him and we're in his second week at his new house so it's a good time to develop good habits. He honestly seems to care for both of us, but his tendency to be sexual around my husband needs to be redirected. Any tips from veterans? Oh. Also he hasn't actually been sexed yet so "he" might be "she" and I have a habit of using one or the other at a whim when writing about Francis/Frances. Just FYI.

Well, we certainly haven't done anything to encourage it except just talk to her. She really does that with my husband, used to with me as well but she's mostly just quiet or talkative with me these days. Distraction would be good, I think that's what I ended up doing: just giving her something to look at when she was out with me. We have some toys on the way that are more interactive, puzzles and stuff, so when those come she'll have other things to do. Right now we just hold her and talk to her when she's out of the cage. I'll poke around the house for some gadgets we can show her when we take her out tonight, but I'm noticing that things not specifically designed to be parrot-proof are just plain not a good idea to give her! You should see what she did to my MINI Cooper key.

We had a great interaction time tonight. Very cautious, but successful. We cleaned the cage, which got her into a good mood because she loves when the grate is off so she can get down and dig/tear at the paper. then we opened the door and spread out a blanket, and she agreed to come out on my husband's hand. He just held her, letting her transfer from hand to hand and from his hand to mine, over his lap, without giving her an opening to climb onto a shoulder. She did her ultra-excited squeaky dance and made her wings all droopy, which seems to be part of the dance. Don't really know what that means except "I like to be near you". After awhile we lifted her back into her cage and I made her dinner. No trauma! And now she's crawling up and down, whistling and talking, and very happy.

Thank you. I was thinking today that maybe she's finally decided to "adopt" her new cage, and in that case there might be a perceptible security difference between being there and being anywhere else in the house. Whereas a few days ago it was all the same to her, in the cage or out, all new; so maybe that's why she was so willing to cling to us.

Okay, that's good to know. She doesn't stay ruffled, it's more like a reaction when I first come near the cage. She does it when I'm not around too, though. The first time she saw the cats she did keep her feathers puffed up for a little while, but now she doesn't even really look at them. She asked for a head scratch this morning and I gave it to her through the cage bars, she was very nice. She's making kissy noises at me from the other room right now. She does a thing I don't know how to interpret. She gets up as high as possible in her cage-we have a rope strung across-and then stretches one foot above her head as high as it'll go like she's straining to find something that's not there. She'll do it several times until it almost looks like her muscles start seizing up because she'll bring the foot back down and give it a stretch and then try again. I actually thought doing that was getting her kind of irritated once or twice because she'd start banging her beak or bouncing her head afterward. The only thing I can figure is that she had this tiny ROUND cage at her old house and I know she could grab the dome above her head when climbing. Our cage is one of these: http://www.americas-pet-store.com/marvelous-bungalow-bird-cage.html and has corners and no dome for her to hold onto. But she can clearly see that...as a matter of fact, she's climbed everywhere except the roof so far.

Well to my knowledge she's never been clipped. She's just always been a self mutilator from what I'm told. We've given her a lot more freedom than she had for the past 10 years and maybe she's starting to feel more independent. She's not familiar enough with us yet so she tries to take care of herself when she's nervous instead of letting us. I think it's a warning nip, not a beaky thing: when she gives a loving nip, she moves slowly and does it very gently. This is more of a quick head movement and a heavier bite that doesn't break the skin, and she hunkers down afterward so I can't put my hand under her body for a step-up. Sometimes her neck feathers fluff up at the same time. No growling, though. She might be choosing my husband but that's just odd because until yesterday I'd have told you she liked me much better than him. Her favorite thing to do all week was crawl up onto my shoulder and tuck her head against my neck so I could ruffle her feathers while I was on the computer. I had the hiccups on Tuesday and ever since, she's made that noise in association with me and she does it to get my attention. She still does that in her cage, but I can't interpret whether she wants me to handle her or not. When all her feathers ruffle up, is that a sign of irritation, or relaxation? A lot of times she'll do that when we come over to talk to her. I've seen her ruffle up her head and neck when she wants a pat, but I'm not sure about it when it's a full body thing.

Sigh. I'm so discouraged. When my husband got home today he took Francis out for a little hello time. Francis got her toe caught in the towel my husband was using as a pad, and I had to come to her rescue but she thought I was trying to hurt her. She gave me a warning nip so I had to disguise my hands in the towel to get her free (which I did very slowly while talking softly) and once free, she retreated around my husband's head and didn't want me near. After awhile I gave her an almond as a peace offering, which she took, then gave me a nice kind of a nibble and bowed her head to me-but when I moved my finger closer I got the warning nip again. I just backed away and let my husband ask her to step up which she did--but then jumped off, landing hard on the floor again. She came walking pretty calmly back to my husband, who picked her up and carried her oh so slowly back to the cage, but there was another near fall on the way there. I don't understand why she's doing that! It must hurt every time. We didn't have this problem once all week until this weekend. It's like she's decided to spook at every little movement we make that she's unfamiliar with. She was quiet again for some hours and took until dinner time to get talkative with us. We've been exchanging whistles but not touching her since then. I was in tears, I'm so worried she'll never trust me again. We're going to skip bath time tomorrow and wait until night to try taking her out again. When we do, we're just going to sit right down beside the cage and stay on the FLOOR. I might even just open the cage door and let her come to us. Luckily we can clean the cage without handling her.

Wow, that's interesting. No, my friends hadn't taken her to the vet in the 10 years they had her. I thought I'd wait a little before taking another trip/introducing her to a kennel and a stranger, etc. I made the vet appointment for a month from now. Francis came home with us just cradled in my arms, because my friend didn't have a kennel and swore Francis wouldn't jump or fly. She didn't either, the whole ride: just talked to us the whole ride home. It did take us about six months to start handling her so we're still very unfamiliar. Plus, in a friend's house we only felt comfortable taking her out and just holding her near her cage so we could talk to her. We didn't think she was allowed very far away from her cage. At OUR house, we have play time and bath time in the morning, and training time at night after work. But I'm going to be a lot less forward about trying new things if she keeps taking these kamikaze leaps. My friend says Francis had plucked herself almost bald at her owners' before them. Now, the most obvious thing is the flight feathers, especially where she's chewed them bare. And the red feathers, which I assumed showed that she'd been plucking around her chest but maybe she always had them! I'm sure my vet will be able to tell me when we go. Actually some of Francis's short feathers around her lower tummy/butt are also red, apart from the actual tail feathers but I was figuring that was normal, it being so close to her tail. Maybe I'll try to take a "butt shot" photo at some stage but she really would like to taste an expensive Canon lens so we're not doing much of that! Thank you so much for your responses, I hope I learn fast so Francis won't give up on me!