wildiesel

That's the thing. Birds can be such strong creatures whilst at the same time can be delicate.They are fascinating. Once in the bush I came across an African Eagle Owl trapped in a snare. His wounds had gone septic and it took him a long time to come right. What struck me though was that his recovery period took far longer than it woud have normally done with other typical mammals with similar type of wounds and infection. Despite their differences in physiology. (Unusual to find a bird in a snare, but I have seen these guys run around trying to catch their prey. Getting back to Greys. My wife did some research over the net to familirise herself with Grey's and I was very sceptical of some of the information. The whole change of enviornment question kept on coming up. This was contrary to my own,albeit somewhat limited, exoerience of Greys.

Interesting post Dave. But I see lots of emotional outburst and little constructive criticism. You also seem to loose sight of the fact that when dealing with living creatures every case is different. You of all people should know that no two birds are the same so generalisations cannot be made. As regards the love of an animal? Trust me, I have spent enough time in the bush to know that to project the human interpretation of love on a wild animal is a fanciful exercise at best. I love this bird yes. But I have no need to have this bird reciprocate this feeling on my own terms for me to be comfortable with it. As regards feeding by mouth well if he did not require it nor feel comfortable with it then surely the bird would reject it and not demand it in the first place. To me this is a logical presumption. I have no wish to argue with you. Arguments are a pointless exercise unless one learns something from them. Life's to short for anything else. I can only base my ideas on my own experiences and worldview. Again a matter of perspective which is an individual thing. As such in dealing with these birds we must not lose sight that each one is an individual and thus poses it’s own individual problems and solutions to those problems. You are making generalisations; I think that in itself is irresponsible. One bird who has been through “many homes” cannot be compared to another who was in the same situation. “Study the personalities of greys and you'll see that there's a huge major difference in mentality between a clipped as opposed to an unclipped bird. They also wanna know how long it's gonna take for damaged wings to comeout evenly.” Agreed wholeheartedly, but this applies to many other larger birds not only Greys. But I feel that being aware of this allows me to take this fact into account and make an informed decision based on personal experience. But more importantly taking into account the specific scenario of this specific bird and its own personality. As regards the time it takes for its flight feathers to match? What I think is more important is what is required for the bird now, taking into account its future. I am sure I can deal with his wings when the time comes. Danmcq, thank you for that. I have that one covered. Fortunately the workshop has a contained area for spraying and another for cutting, welding etc. Modus will be in the clean area of the shop where only the light work is done. It is the front of house so to speak and one can literally eat off the floors.

Hi Guys. My name is William currently living in Ireland, South African by nationality. I love birds, snakes, frogs, beetles and big cats. Machines are my passion. Anything with an engine, classic cars and aeroplanes really get me going. Three things give me great joy. My Daughter, having spanners in my hand and smelling hot metal and being in the middle of nowhere on my own.(Yes I know,contradiction in terms but so be it LOL) I've never been a sports fan, unless one counts frisbee, shooting guns and skydiving as a sport. My favourite "pets" are birds. I love the way they feel,the distinct smell of parrots, and the fact that they can fly. Incredible creatures they are. So far we have only Modus an African Grey Congo. I've had Macaws,Amazons,Greys and a Cockatoo previously.When we return home we'll be able to have more birds once again. I've often felt that I would like to work with birds full time but maybe next time 'round I'll choose that to be so. I see that I can learn a lot from you guys so it's great to have found you. Thanks.

I think that I will be doing the right thing. It is a matter of context however.But as usual need to learn from the ideas of others.My thoughts are as follows. It will be good for Modus to spend as much time with me as possible for the moment.Hence I am thinking of bringing him to work with me. I do not want to take the chance of him flying away just yet.It is a noisy enviornment for a bird; customising and modifying cars. Yes he feels safe with me and we have a good bond. But it is early days yet and we have not been together all that long in the scheme of things. Limited flight will ensure his safety yet still give him his own sense of autonomy by being able to move around as he pleases. Within reason of course. I see no harm in this till he gets used to the sudden noises that occur in a workshop of this kind. A clipped wing is a temporary measure and no sure thing yet. I have put a lot of thought into it, still am. Be assured there is no ego invlved here. I do not see Modus as being "my" bird. He is his own person. But he is my responsability now as well. He is learning to trust me and trust that my actions will not cause him harm. We are currently living in Ireland. Definately not his 'natural' habitat. I have lived in Africa and was born there. If he goes walkabout he will not survive. Spending more time with me one on one will be good for him but in order for him to do so certain parameters need be met. Your feedback on this is greatly appreciated.

Luvparrots has hit the nail on the head. Your bird is trying to tell you something so it's best to step back and listen.Your approach could be a little off. Ask yourself what your Dad does or does not do that is different to the way you handle your bird. Observe the difference if any and modify your own behaviour. Please note this is said with respect, I am not insinuating that you are doing anything wrong. But these birds are individuals. Two things come to mind here. Firstly you know your bird bites. So is this expectation you have affecting how you approach you bird? Lets face oit these guys can bite! LOL. So could it not be that because you expect to get mauled it can smell your fear. If you don't approach it with confidence beleive me it will pick up on this.When an animal, including human animals, sense fear they immediately go into self protection mode. It's a normal instinct. So a bite is its reaction to what you feel. If you are putting your hand towards it, then pull back, then try again, then pull back, you give the bird mixed signals.It does not know what you want from it and is confused. I know this sounds really silly but works for me in this situation. Spend some time with the bird without trying to force contact. Be patient. pull your head down into your shoulders,puff your cheeks up. This is a sign in their language that you are comfortable and not a threat. Talk in a low voice and be calm. Put your hand nearby but just leave it there without forcing contact. Do this a few times and the bird will realise you are not a threat. But most importantly approach the bird gently at first till it gets to know you.A lot of times when I approach an unknown bird I calmly offer my hand after "talking" to it but never pull it back even when it bites. Most times this works for me. Puncture marks heal and can't kill so one has nothing to lose. These guys are gregarious creatures and love contact, but on their terms. The key here is patience. It's your bird and you want to be able to have contact with it, that is understandable. But if you are getting a bit frustrated with the biting that does not help. Even though this is also understandable. Create the scenario it needs to feel at ease with you and it will happen. But remember it is on the birds terms so don't rush things. Hope this helps, good luck to both of you.

I think that like with all things perspective here is important.That and the consideration of the nature of things.A bird's nature is to fly.It's part of its genetic memeory and physical structure. We think they need to "learn" to fly. I think more likely is a case of their having to remember.Flight is a complex set of events involving the relationship between, thrust, lift, drag,air flow/pressure to name a few. What I'm trying to say here is that flying is difficult so if a bird had to learn it the whole process would take far longer for the poor thing. The ability to fly is an instinct hardwired into the birds nature.Flying is so much a part of a bird that that is what it is the moment it is born. A creature that flies. So. What to do. Two very important points have been made in previous posts. A bird who knows how to fly knows enough to not hurt itself, where to land, how to land etc,etc. So yes I would agree with the premise to only trim the wings after it has learned how to fly. Also to not take it for granted that a bird will not be able to fly away from a perceived danger with clipped wings. Many a bird has been lost this way. Once again though perpsective is important and I am going to contradict myself here. If an owner lives in a dense urban area then it might be better to trim its wings until it is confident in its surroundings and knows enough to be able to come back to its caregiver when the need arises. But to acheive that state there must be a good rapport between bird and owner.It must also be confident in its surroundings.Lets face it. Our world with its noise,constant movement and unknown factors must be a pretty sacry place for any creature that is not used to it. I'm "used' to it but I still feel more comfortable in the bush that I do in big cities LOL. Bottom line is there is no right or wrong 'per se'. It's what is right for the bird. Both from a safety and comfort point of view. What we feel when a bird is hurt or lost has nothing to do with it, even though it is personal. But it has everything to do with the bird itself. When we take on the responsability of sharing our world with another animal we must do what is right and better for them. But taking into account their very natures. Sorry for being so long winded about this. But a case in point is our little guy. Modus was a wreck when we got him. He'd been through 5 owners that we knew of. He lived in a small cage, given the wrong diet, pulled his feathers out, was extremely agressive toward humans and shivering nervously all the time.In fact if we had not got him when we had he would be dead by now. Six months down the line he is a different bird. Healthy, noisy, cheeky, happy but most importantly he's confident. Luckily I was able to understand his language, his needs and respond to them. During supper I still feed him from my mouth like a chick. However if that is what he needs at the moment to feel secure then so be it. He needs to feelsecure with us and himself.But it was a heartbreaking thing to have to "teach" a three year old african grey how to fly,or rather give it the confidence to be able to do so. To have to strenghten its wings and its self esteem. Maybe I've got it all wrong.But I beleive that a major factor in bringing modus back to a healthy state was bringing back his ability to fly. In other words allowing him to express his nature, flight. Respecting his nature and allowing him to do what birds do. However I am going to trim his wing though soon because in our present enviornment I see it as the sensible thing to do to ensure his safety and wellbeing for now. I hope I have conveyed my thoughts clearly as it's difficult for me to explain things clearly and briefly at the best of times.

Firstly,well done guys, this is an amazing and well put together site and seems like a good community. My question is regarding the whole idea of our Grey's disliking change to the point where they are adversely affected by it. We take our bird shopping, walking and out for coffee. His toys are changed on a regular basis as is the basic layout out his "perch". We do not keep him in a cage and give him the run of the house. My two other Greys had much the same handling and type of enviornment.The only time I saw any signs of stress or discomfort were during times when I could not give them attention they were used to. Having said that there were also times when they needed their own space though this was rare. So,my thoughts are as follows.Personal experience has led me to see that these birds are not as paranoid about change in their enviornmnet as is generally portrayed. In fact my logic tells me that these birds being as clever as they are change would actually be beneficial to them. Their intelligence is stimulated therefore might they notbeocome less frustated as when living in a static enviornment? Having said all this please let me state I am not a vet nor a naturalist etc. But I also do not take public opinion as gospel unless supported by logical evidence. Your thoughts would be appreciated.