Leia

i respect your opinion. thanks for your advice lovethatgrey. i guess i'll just feel my way arround the situation. Leia seems alot happier and calmer today and is eating well. so hopefully it will stay that way and i wont have to worry about sunflower seeds again. i always monitor my birds weight and everyone that has seen her so far says she looks very healthy compared to other greys they have seen, so im sure she's fine. she hasnt lost any weight either and her dropping seem very healthy too.

"A bird fed only a 100 percent pellet diet, is not a healthy parrot, regardless of what pellet manufactures may claim. In fact, I may get flack for this, but I believe it is cruel and health detrimental over a long period of time to do so." I understand your concern but i really dont feed my grey only pellets, i feed her a variety of different veges which change from day to day. i simply provide the pellets along side to provide a more well rounded and balanced diet because pellets are supposed to have multi vitamins and minerals included in them. i know you werent implying i feed my grey only pellets, but i am just claryfying matters. also as i have said on more than one occassion, i did try to wean my grey off the sunflower seeds slowly, but she just demanded more and was not interested in any of her other food. so given the circumstances i di what i thought fit for the situation. I met 2 year old grey that was a recovering bird that had liver problems and was about to be put down. its really sad and a serious condition for any of our birds tgo have. i'd rather not rriisk that by giving my grey even the slightest chance of getting liver problems.

Thanks karunk, your advise did help, but i think my situation is alot more severe than your greys situation. Having read the article that love that grey posted a link to, i appreciate that sunflower seeds have alot of nutritional value. But in my greys situation, she became more demanding when she got a taste of it, and i gave in not knowing the dangers. i have done ALOT of reading on sunflower seeds, and some say its good, some say its bad, some say only good in balance. But the general feeling i am getting is that our birds dont get half the ammount of exercise birds in the wild get, therefore sunflower seeds are more harmful to our birds if we cannot exercise control. And in my case i cannot exercise control because the minute my grey gets a taste the mood swings and tantrum begin. i cannot allow her to have it because of the possible liver damage it could cause. The article was written by Alex's owner i assume, and alex died at the premature age of 31 due to "natural causes". I am no1 to judge, but my mind questions what the natural causes could have been. Also the article mentioned that sunflower seeds act as a calming agent and good for deppression, anxiety and mental health. Well my grey is acting like a recovering addict right now. so in my view it was acting as a drug for her. I respect all those that are able to exercise control in providing sunflower seeds for their birds, but my case is different. My bird is addicted to sunflower seeds and evn though i used to put other foods along side the sunflower seeds initially, she did not touch them and waited for her next batch of sunflower seeds. initially i thought its ok, as long as she is eating. but now i regret ever having bought the sunflower seeds in the first place. Thanks for all of your advise everyone.

Oh I forgot to mention that I don't think we get the zupreme fruity pellet here in Africa. We get other makes, I guess I have to keep trying until I find one that works for my grey. Thanks for sharing though

Thanks for your advice everyone. In reply to tycos_mom, I'm really glad someone understands what I'm going through. I agree that it's best they don't get a taste of it at all, but I wasn't so wise previous to this. I guess some greys are more persistant in getting what they want than other greys. An update for everyone else, I visited the avian vet today to ask if I'm going about this the right way. And he said sunflower seeds are very very damaging for greys in terms of liver problems. They are ok for other parrots like cockatiels, but in his view a grey should not have even a little because once they get a tasteof it again, it will lead to the same problems when taken away. He says I'm doing the right thing by stopping her completely, I just have to be strong. She will go on a hunger strike for about 4 days and throw tantrums. That is typical grey behavour. But eventually she'll realise she can't get her way and eat the food that's there. Just thought I'd share what he said.

in reply to lovethatgrey, I hear what u are saying about gradually reducing the mix. I've tried that previously to this thread. My grey is very used to different types of food. I give her a different veg each day, ranging from boiled carrots to cauliflower to rice to cucumber, chillies, green pepper corn, only but to name a few. Along side that I used to put pellets in her other food bowl and ofcoursr water. 2 weeks ago I bought the mix thinking I'd treat her once in a while. But after just the 1st day she decided she is no longer eating any of her other food and kept making a loud quaking sound (nagging) continuously until I gave it to her. But then I realised she's wasting all her other food and just eats that. Because of that I decided to stop her totally. I went to visit my avian vet today, and he said that is typical grey behaviour. She will go on a hunger strike for 4 days and throw tantrums but he said it's really for the best because of the liver problems that sunflower seeds cause. He said I shouldn't even give her a little because once she gets the taste again, it's back to square one. I think ur greys are probably much more easy going and laid back compared to mine, mine can be quite spoilt. But I'm hanging in there and praying she come right.

Hi everyone. I'm concerned about what I am feeding my cag. Initially I fed her pellets and a variety of fruit and veg along side the pellets. She used to enjoy her food but still wanted her handrearing porridge at night at the age of 4 & 1/2 months. She stopped the porridge when I introduced a nut and seed mix which I initially wanted to give her occassionally. But she kept nagging everytime I put food into the cage until I gave her the fruit and nut mix and would only eat the nuts and seeds and leave the pellets out. But I'm concerned that it's too high in fat and will lead to weight and liver problems in the long run. I've tried stopping her, this is the 2nd day but she keeps nagging despite the fact that there's softened pellets and nice veges in her cage which she previously used to love? I need some help? Want to know if I'm doing the right thing by stopping her from eating that?

I’m talking about a mix that they sell at the pet stores with mostly sunflower seeds and all types of nuts and a few dried fruit and pellets. But the balance is not right because there are too many sunflower seeds and nuts in the mix. I bought it as a treat thinking id give it to her once a week. But she started demanding it and hasn’t stopped crying for 2 days since ive stopped. She tosses all the other food she previously liked. And shes persistant in her demanding the nut mix.

You see the problem is that i’ve tried to slowly reduce the amount by only give her a little along side healthy food, but she refuses to touch her veges or pellets at all and once her nuts and seeds are finished she cries for more my quacking and moving her head up and down. I know thats a food cry. She continues to do that until i give her more. But i realised its a problem when she became reliant on it as her only food source. I decided that moderation is not working and stopped it. But ever since i have, 2 days now, she quacks and whistles continuously for hours on end and every time i put food in her bowl she rushes to see whats inside and when its not the sunflower seeds she continues to cry. I thought she would have stopped after half an hour, that she would get tired of crying but today she cried for 7 hours literally nonstop, no exaggerations. She’ll follow me around the house, crying to be carried and when i carry her she screams in my ear. I tried putting her in her cage and covering her to calm her down but that does not work, she carries on as soon as i open it. Its as if she is a drug addict having withdrawal symptoms. Im starting to question whether the supplier could have drugged the food. I know it sound far fetched, but shes really acting strange. I know she cant be sick, she just wants that mix.

I would like to know exactly how unhealthy sunflower seeds and nuts are? I bought a fruit, nut and seed mix for my bird as a treat, but ever since i've fed her them she cries and nags for me to give it to her every day. i've read and been told that too much sunflower seeds are bad for caged birds because they are high in fat and lead to liver problems. the problem is that when i try to stop her, she nags and nags. i dont know whether i should just give it to her, but my heart tells me that it may make her suffer later on in her life, and im doing her an injustice by giving in to her? but i dont know how to deal with the nagging. am i doing the right thing?

Hi everyone. I'm concerned about what I am feeding my cag. Initially I fed her pellets and a variety of fruit and veg along side the pellets. She used to enjoy her food but still wanted her handrearing porridge at night at the age of 4 & 1/2 months. She stopped the porridge when I introduced a nut and seed mix which I initially wanted to give her occassionally. But she kept nagging everytime I put food into the cage until I gave her the fruit and nut mix and would only eat the nuts and seeds and leave the pellets out. But I'm concerned that it's too high in fat and will lead to weight and liver problems in the long run. I've tried stopping her, this is the 2nd day but she keeps nagging despite the fact that there's softened pellets and nice veges in her cage which she previously used to love? I need some help? Want to know if I'm doing the right thing by stopping her from eating that?

Wow, I had no idea crows were so intelligent, territorial and united. Since I've had Leia I've learnt so many wonderful & interesting things about birds, as well as scary things. : ) I wouldn't like to keep leia house bound, she loves to go out so I really hope the crows have forgotten. But reading up on crows and reading your responses It is said that they never forget a face. Hope they don't keep persisting on driving us away coz that would be scary. But since the incident, it's been 24 hours, I haven't been out since but the area seems pretty clear arround the house. I wonder how they communicate so effectively to be able to collect a mob within seconds literally. It's amazing. First there was 1, then 2 or 3 and then hundreds!!!! :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy: Post edited by: Leia, at: 2009/09/06 08:52<br><br>Post edited by: Leia, at: 2009/09/06 08:57

How old is he? I'm not as experienced as other members on the forum as my Cag is only 4 months old, but from what i've experienced and read their likes and dislikes keep changing. ask the breeder what he was giving your cag. Maybe he prefers that? I know my cag doesnt eat as much as she used to but seems very healthy and playful and is maintaining her weight. Because you say he is his usual self, maybe you should give it a little while longer. Monitor his weight and his droppings and see from there. I also read that their nostrils must be clear and eyes bright and healthy. If there are any other changes in behaviour that concern you maybe you should visit your vet. Hope its nothing serious though. Goodluck

Thanks for your advice guys. My husband thought i was being dramtic and said that crows are scavengers, they dont hunt other birds. He finds it surprising that they dont bother with the smaller flinches and other birds flying arround, and said why would they bother with leia. But i told him he wasnt there and i really think they would have attacked given the opportunity. But they dont seem to be hanging arround anymore, i just hope they arent clever enough to remember where we live. the doors and windows are usually closed but i get annoyed sometimes when someone in the house forgets it open. like today theres a painter here and he leaves the door open every time he comes in and out. I'm sure its a territorial thing as well, they've probably never seen many parrots so they a little curious as well.

So is it a bad thing if i massage my birds feathers in the shower until she does get as wet as posssble? she sometimes does not get wet at all in the shower and i assumed it was bad so i massage her feathers so that the water reaches the skin.

Early this morning just after sunrise i decided to take my cag for a walk and ended up on a football field near my house. she was calling out to some ducks that were playing out on the field so i decided to go closer. The ducks all started quaking and flying off and then came the crows who were flying above me and giving off a kinda prey call acting as if they were trying to hunt my cag. It was very frightening as there were over a hundred of them circling my head flying about 8 feet above me. My cag being innocent and sheltered and young assumed they were being freindly and refused to stsy protected and cuddled up underneath my top and arms. she decided she wanted to push herself on to the top of my head to be as close as possible to them. I felt it was unsafe to stand out with her as they followed me all the way home and would not go away. I did not know how far they would go, if they would eventually attack me to get to her. I was also afraid to go into my house because i wondered if they would remember that she lived here and possibly try to attack her at home when we werent aware. her cage is by the window facing the inside garden. Should i be worried for her safety or will the crows simply forget about her and move on? I'm really concerned......

Yoshi sounds very cute. Befor i got my cag i read that every grey's personality is different just like every persons personality is different. Maybe your yoshi is a quiet bird, or maybe his personality is still coming out. My cag is very vocal, but will not respond to other ppl in the house besides me. About the porridge, my leia just refused it a week ago after alot of worrying on my part. i thought she was just greedy and would never refuse it, but carried on offering it to her despite the fact that i had a feeling she was too old for it, and she did refuse it, one day out of the blue. im sure yoshi will refuse it, dont panic, it may just take a little longer for him than other birds. i dont think you should stop him until he stops himself. My cag is a little over 4 months, maybe yoshi will stop when hes 6, but i suggest being pateint until he stops by himself. and about sleeping on his bowl, we had to force leia to learn to sit on her perches, we used to worry alot, she didnt even attempt to climb until she was over 3 months. just give him time, he may be a slow learner. everything will fall into place im sure, dont worry too much

Thanks for that jooles, i am prepared for ppls opinions but some of the ways that their opinions were put accross were really harsh and uncalled for. There is always always ALWAYS a polite and diplomatic way of stating your opinion even if it means you thoughts are totally contrary to others. I could not have private messaged because i simply do not who who does know and who does not know how to clip. I honestly thought everyone respected one another enough to respect their opinions without attacking them. But in anycase thankyou to those of you who stated your opinions in a polite manner and respected the fact that it is my decision and responsibilty alone to do what is best for my bird. Another thing is jilly replied with such rudeness and sarcasm in her original post and then wonders why i am being rude. Try and read back if you can and you'll see that i was not the 1st to attack, i still decided to be polite until it was a bit too much to bear. anyway, im really and truely not holding any of this is my heart, i'm letting go of it and hope everyone can do the same. i hope this is a lesson to all of us to respect other peoples views and opinions without critisising or putting them down. The perpose of this forum is to help each other, NOT DOMINATE EACH OTHER.

Jess I really think you misunderstood my MSG. A clipped bird will not have the opportunity to end up in a foriegn surrounding by itself. An unclipped bird will have the opportunity to get lost at some point in it's life, and because it can fly, it makes ur search alot harder because the bird could travel a far distance and end up somewhere u may never think of searching. The bigger the area, the harder it is to find what you are looking for. So I did not say a clipped bird is safer out alone than a unclipped bird, I said a unclipped bird has more risk of getting lost than an clipped bird. Please do not put words into my mouth. And by the way, I have done my research. I've read all about the confidence a bird has when they can fly and also that flying provides good exercise and enables a bird to maintain their weight. But I've also heard stories from previous bird owners who's birds have flown away despite their efforts to keep their birds from doing so. My bird has the same confidence she had before she was clipped. And also she still exercises by climbing up things. I am well informed about the advantages of both sides of the arguments. PLEASE DO NOT SAY I DO NOT KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT WHEN IT IS U THAT IS MISUNDERSTANDING WHAT I AM SAYING AND PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH. I DID NOT SAY A CLIPPED BIRD IS SAFER OUT THERE THAN AN UNCLIPPED BIRD, I SAID AN UNCLIPPED BIRD IS MORE LIKELY TO END UP IN THE FACE OF DANGER THAN A CLIPPED BIRD. AND IF I WAS SCISSOR HAPPY AND IGNORANT TO THE DISADVANTAGES OF CLIPPING I WOULD HAVE NEVER ASKED THE ADVICE OF THOSE I THOUGHT WERE MATURE, EXPERIENCED & WELL GROUNDED GREY OWNERS. But I chose to research properly before I clipped her wings. I was against clipping just a week ago. But each and every one of us has to ask ourselves what's best for our own birds and our own situation. And my bird cannot be left unclipped at the moment. I say that having done all the research I possibly could have done. Maybe you Jess should also read on the injuries that have happened to flighted cags in homes, those are apart from the thousand other greys that have flown away and never been found again. It just takes a split second for ur bird to sight an opening and it may be too late. The outside world will be too stressfull for them to cope on their own. They've never done it. Anyway, I appologise to those I have offended because of our differences in opinions. I did not mean to attack any1, I was simply defending myself. I do believe some of u owe me an appology for causing undue tension on the forum. Every1 should respect other pols views because the world is made up of all sorts of different ppl and not even a single one of us are perfect or always right. I do not want to argue anymore or be accused of anything anymore, so please if any1 of you dnt have anything nice to say, rather keep it off the forum. Tell it to you husband, wife, dog , cat , cag, but I have no time for rudeness and ppl that feel their way is the only right way. Every1 should learn to accept others, no1 can control the world.

You make good points danmcq, but I still believe that I do not want to give my bird the chance to come into possible danger by flying away. That is my choice, despite previously having thought it is best not to clip. I have seen a cag that flew out of a factory and got chased by crows, so besides cags defending themselves from bullys on the ground, there are also much more experienced flighted bullys that are much larger in numbers and possibly territorial. My bird would be devastated if she were to get lost, she is attached to me and me alone and despite numerous daily attempt by every1 in the house to get her to like them, she will be super silent until she see's me and then she starts to sing and shake her tail and call for me. And she also calls to go out with me when she see's I am leaving. I do not want her to have to adjust to another environment, she's happy and comfortable. I do not mind training her to be able to fly and come back if someone were to offer me advise on how to, i have the love, patience and time. But I was under the assumption that u cannot train ur cag to come back on it's own. It does not have the skills to find it's way back. But I do not have the knowledge at the moment, maybe I will at a later stage in my life. I've gotten a scolding about nor clipping her numerous times from my inlaws when she flew away, so I understand ur passion for not wanting to clip, but I have had to weigh the pros and cons and right now, it is safer for me to clip. Maybe Ina year I won't do it again. My cag was clipped yesterday and she is still happy and confident and loving. But in any case, I would love to teach my bird to fly back to me so if any1 knows how, I would really appreciate ur advise. Also my bird gets alot of attention that alot of other bird owners dnt know about. Ppl in the neighbourhood are often surprised that my bird showers, is potty trained and goes n outings with me. So if there are any of u that feel I'm not deserving of a cag, or not doing a good job, there are other ppl that u should judge more harshly, not me. I know of birds that never leave their cage, or home, or never bathe their entire life. The ppl on this site at least make the effort to educate themselves on what is best and healthy for their birds. But that being said, I am going to take this simply as a learning experience, and leave it at that.

Honestly speaking, none of you have the right to tell me that a grey is not the right pet for me. and none of you have the right to tell me not to clip her wings. i could also pass judgement on all of you for not clipping yopur birds wings by saying that if and when your bird flies away, your bird will probably have a very sad fate because they have no skills to survive on their own in the wild. Also if you all were concerned about birds being birds, you wouldnt take them out of their natural habitat and bring them into your home. and clipping will keep my bird safe, because us humans have spoilt things by bringing them into homes in the first place, so it is our duties to make sure they stay safe in the home with us. because if my grey ends up out there in the world on her own, she wouldnt survive 2 nights in the cold winter of our city with no food. I've seldom heard of a grey that has flown away finding its way back, its easy for the humans who are safe and cozy at home to carry on with life once their greys are gone, but not so easy for the grey thats survival skills have been taken away because of selfish humans. so if you all want to label and impose your opinions on others, you can start by not having birds as pets at all, that way you wont have to worry about them not flying, or them getting hurt because of you if they do fly away. i did not ask any of you whether i should clip my birds feathers or not, i simply asked if you knew the correct way. Moobu was the only one that answered my question. Its really sad that ppl feel that they have the right to tell others whats good for them and whats not when they dont know their situation at all. i really think you should worry about your own greys and stop telling other ppl what they should do and what pets they should have. it is my life and my pets and if i abuse them i will stand alone before god and answer for that on the day of judgement. but i can assure you that i have a very happy healthy grey, and i do a very good job as a grey owner. it hypocritical that the ppl that are passing judgement on clipping are very happy to keep their greys locked up from all outdoor life which is just as healthy for them as flying. Maybe you should consider how much you have crippled your grey by taming them, feeding them, making them rely on you entirely to the point that when and if they do fly away by accident one day, you will regret it forever because even if they are microchipped, by the time you get to them, they will probably be dead because their inadequate survival skills because of your need to have them as pets. and that will be your fault alone for npt clipping them. they only have the intelligence of a 5 yr old. i'd like to see any of you giving your 5 yr old child the opportunity to probably get lost in the world on their own. i doubt you would. all of those who told me i shouldnt have a grey as a pet, you seriously need to get a life and stop worrying about others, i can worry about looking after my own grey. i asked advice with a good and polite nature and got arguments, rudeness and dominance in return. i dont appreciate that at all. this site was supposed to help me but the way some of you ppl go on, it hasnt. Part of being a good person is accepting that everyone is different and your way cant always be the right way and respect everyone elses ways an opinions. i'm tired of the arguments and fighting and dominance. if you have nothing nice to say, rather control yourself and say nothing at all.

I've done this with ALOT of thought, and my heart is aching because of the fact that i have to clip her. i have tried not clipping her wings, but as i've said, she keeps flying away, and i have to get ladders etc to get to her. she's doing it playfully, but the neighbours have dogs, there are stray cats arround. also if she does end up getting frightened by crows and ends up panicking and going somewhere dangerous, i may find her when shes dead. i'm glad those who dont clip their birds can keep them safe, but my way of keeping her safe is by clipping her. And to the statement that i should get another pet, my choice of pet is an african grey, and i love her and she loves me. I'm very good to her and she has a loving stable home. i dont think its fair that you should judge me on doing what i think is right for my birds individual situation.

I appreciate every1s views, and i too did not want to clip my birds wings. but living in a house with 10 ppl and lots of guests, its very difficult to discipline them all to close the door after them. my bird has flown away twice already. i was just lucky i got to her before a dog or cat attacked he, or a car ran over her. So it is for her own good. I love animals, i would never abuse them, but its a bit impossible to change everything in your house to be a 100% safe for your bird. for example, she keeps flying into the mirror. a persons next response would be to tape the mirror, but where is the limit? I asked for advise and i'm appreciative of it. but like everyone here feels they have the intelligence and sence to do what they think is right for their birds, i also feel i will do what right for mine. every parent has their own parenting styles and reasons. there is no need for arguments, every1 can view their opinion in a respectful way and whats best for them.

Hi Everyone. I would like to know if the dna testing of african grey parrots is acurate when the cag is really young. i had her tested when she was 8 weeks old with the blood test method where they look at the dna sample. The vet told me its the most acurate and safest way of testing as apose to the surgical method. But since i've tested her i've had people say some strange things like the birds sex changes as they get older so its not acurate. or that my bird is definately a male, they can tell by its head. I personally dont believe them but i wouldd like to know if they could possibly be right? It doesnt really make a difference whether she is a male or female, but i would like to know what really is true.

Hi everyone, i would like to know what is the correct way to clip my cags feathers? i took her to the pet shop and they clipped all her flight feathers but was later told that its very painful for them to land without theire breaker feathers because they hit their chest on the ground when they land? i would like to do it myself as to avoid these kind of mistakes in the future. I was told the breaker feathers are the last 3-4 feathers at the tip of their wings and those should not be clipped. all the rest should be. it helps the bird to land properly if they should jump off something high. but i would still like more info from experienced people please?