Janfromboone

Thanks for your response. I wondered about taking food away to encourage the bird to take a treat. Can't really see the harm if they don't loose weight. Tobie won't eat any thing - more than a bite, once - so training him with food reward is out of the question. He used to like oats and barley or bits of apple when he was a baby and I taught him the turn around and the wave and several little tricks. Glad to hear that he may not be obese. I'll check in with the vet too.

I posted a thread under the forum "bird food". I know that I used to check out the lounge without checking out other forums and wanted to let people know and go to it. I have a concern about Tobie being too fat. Also I have found that there was unneeded waste of his food which I have corrected by reducing the amount that I feed him. Check out my post.

I recently purchased and read a book by Michael Sazhin -- The Parrot Wizard's Guide to Well behaved Parrots. I purchased the book because I've seen his many videos and well trained birds which seem to be able to be handled and fearless around anyone. They perform tricks for anyone. Here are some links. and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giyhDNlY1tU. I was very impressed by the book which also addressed a problem I have with training Tobie. He won't eat a treat. Maybe a bite of apple but then he turns his head away. Michael sais that not taking a treat is the most common complaint he hears. He sais it is because our parrots are over fed and under exercised even when they are flighted. Usually left in a cage while we work they eat out of bordom. Because of reading this I looked up CAG weight on this forum and found that the Weights reported were usually 416 to 460 grams ( I am just recalling this now - If you look up the article the range may be a bit different) Tobie's weight is 510 to 520 grams. I have been weighing and recording his weight which was 511 the first weighing and today was 519 a month and a half later. I weigh daily and am reducing his food - from 50 grams of Harrison diet high potency course to 30 grams this week. He gets some raw vegetables also (Broccoli, carrots and cauliflour and greens from the garden). He is obviously not loosing weight and I am saving just a bit less than 50% on my bird food bill because he doesn't powder up the food in the bottom of the cage. The food pellet in the bottom of the cage are weighed and the powder in the bowl etc and it has gone from 25 to 5 grams of waste. My plan now is to take Tobie to the vet and see if he is truly obese and begin to reduce his food to whatever the vet feels is normal - if he is truly a fat bird. I assume that obesity is as much a problem with our birds as it is with us. I want him to live a long time. Anyone have any comments. Has anyone read this book. For someone so young and with so few years of experience I was highly impressed with this information and with Michael Sazhin. P.S I realize that the first video is a bit hard to watch - but impressive don't you think.

She'll be at Pineville NC below Charlotte August 10th. I'll be there

you have a lot to look forward to. When I come in I usually sit down with my husband downstairs for a few minutes before going upstairs where Tobie is. I have to listen to " Hey Jan, Helllloooooo! How was your day? (Pause) Jan, Hey Jan-bird! (Pause) Hey Jan! Come get the bird. Jay-bird, Hey Jay-bird, come open the door. " and so on until I get up and go upstairs to see the little guy. He is 6 years old now.

glad to hear someone else is attatched to molted feathers. I thought I was strange.

I had a very similar thing happen to me in early spring 3x a couple of weeks apart. I never quite learned what the problem was but getting out of my PJs and combing my hair seemed to solve the problem. I think he just expects me to be put together when I come out around to the kitchen. It always happened when I was off work and not dressed. It hasn't happened since whether I'm in PJs or dressed.

Dan is always so right on. I was going to say slow down and don't force him. I've never rehomed a grey but even mine some times sais "no" and I can't force him to step up - walk away and try later. It is important that they know they can say no and you won't force them. It builds trust.

I'd love to know the natural psychology of wild african greys in a flock. Do they bite each other? They must work as a unit to survive. I can't see a bunch of bickering african greys forming a cohesive unit. If one bird bites does the other bite back? I recall a post that there is no pecking order among parrots and that there is little if any conflict. Then why do we get bites at times. Jan

Thanks for your responses. Good thoughts. The way I was holding my hands may have been a trigger. The only common denominator I can think of is the fact that it has always been morning and just as I open the cage though every morning and everytime I open the cage this doesn't happen. It's not the season for hawks but the little birds have been frequenting my feeder. It's only happened 4 times and spaced way apart. Maybe he just gets up on the wrong side of the perch.

Thanks for your response. You are right - I felt a bump on my hand and looked down to the blood squirting. It was really a very little cut in the end though. I just need to be more careful of his body language I suppose. The painful part is just the fact that he would do that. It is such a total deviation from Tobies normal personality. Helps to know that this happens even with Dayo who has such a knowlegable and loving dad. Thanks

Thanks Dave for a wonderful story about how you can turn a birds life around. Love a happy ending. I posted a short wile ago about Tobie biting me for the first time ( with intent to inflict harm ) - see page 68. It has been a while since those incidences. He once again attact me. Same situation. First thing in the morning I had just gotten up and the first thing I do is open the cage. This morning I was distracted after opening the cage and turned toward my aquarium and started cleaning the algae off the glass. When I finished my hands were wet and holding my hands up like a surgeon I walked past Tobie's cage to wash them in the sink - not even looking at Tobie. He bit my hand as I walked by - just a quick jab that actually broke the skin and punctured a vein on my hand which spurted blood and I had to run to the sink to keep the mess in one spot while I applied pressure. Now Tobie is still looking agressive and I know that if I got close enough he would bite again. When I finally got the bleeding stopped Tobie was not entirely calm and saying "you OK" over and over While leaning out toward me and feathers slicked down. I said Of course I'm not OK - get in your cage!! Strangely he did get in the cage and I shut the door. An hour later I let him out and he was chatty and had a totally different sweet demeanor. What in the world is this. I wonder if it has to do with mornings when I don't get dressed and look different - you know - no make up and hair all a muss in my PJs. I know at least two of these times were on my days off.

Hi Dan, I've been reading up on "Grey Cognition". I'm not the only one with a really smart and funny bird. Of course I have a story almost every week as does everyone. One of Tobies games that he likes to play is Wild Bird. He sais "you're a wild bird" to which I respond " I'm not a wild bird, you're a wild bird". Then he growls and I say "that's very wild" and he growls louder --etc. This day, however, I decided to change my response. Tobie sais " You're a wild bird" and I said "who's the wild bird". There was a long pause (I've learned not to interrupt these pauses - something good always happens). In a moment Tobie sais "TOBIE'S the wild bird". With an obvious emphasis on the name. I thought it was brilliant that he seemed to understand what I was asking.

Thanks kins2321, I was glad to read in Shanlungss writings that he felt that you should let the bird know of your disapproval of his biting and not ignore it as I've read over and over. There is a differece between a hard squeeze - insistent behavior of your bird saying "no, I said NO", and agressive and agitated biting which was what Tobie was doing. I always ignore the squeezes, but think its ok to say UHH!! UHH!! NO!! Thats what I do when he chews the couch and he knows to stop the behavior. Amazing that putting him in the cage for just a short time completely calmed him down and he was all soft and sweet again.

I put cement perches at places that I know Tobie will frequent. There are two of them and I never have to trim nails.