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danmcq wrote: Probability is not an "assumption", it is a suggestion of the highest percentage of reason. If you watched the Video and read the captions, they stated the Grey had been "Abused". Now, in reference your posits of members Brains and logic. You are "Assuming" that most replies to your Post are from members that are not logical thinkers and therefore that equals they are not using their Brains. Your logic is flawed. I agree that any Animal, Bird or Fish etc. can be "broken" by the use of intimidation, pain and inducing fear upon them. But, that is not how most trainers elect to teach and build a relationship with any creature they work with. That is the minority of trainers. It amazes me, that you can just dis-spell all the books written by people whom have spent their lives working with Birds. If you think every Animal, Bird or Fish etc. can all be trained and a symbiotic relationship can be attained using the same methods across the board, you are seriously wrong. That's the reason we have children these days cutting themselves, committing suicide or becoming a threat to society. They were abused either physically, mentally or both. Fear and intimidation never results in a sentient being that you can trust when you turn your back on them or release them to general population. Well, again you're comparing the bird/animal to a human. Actually we have kids like that these days because of drugs, neglect and lack of discipline. There's nothing wrong with discipline. And you do assume things. Why do you assume "training" is punishment or abuse? Can you please explain in detail how my logic is flawed? I'm really interested. Also describe in detail cases that have not used said methods of "breaking" without success. Ever watch things like the Dog Whisperer? He takes the same approach I do. He forces the dogs to submit so please explain how his/my logic is flawed. If there's a better method then I'm listening but I have a life and plans, goals, girlfriend etc. I don't have the same amount of time you might have. Direct me to those training methods other than breaking that did in fact succeed. I'm very interested in this because I don't think it can be done so please show me a few cases where training wild animals did not involve a type of breaking of the animal's will. I just want to see how a wild horse was trained by talking to and showing it patience and hoping he'd come around and let you ride it. Also those books you talked about might be right but I believe I have a better method. At least I can prove it by showing you pics of my nice tamed, healthy bird. There's nothing wrong with discipline.

danmcq wrote: So keyword being "PROBABLY". You just assumed right? Gotcha' That bird looked abused, I don't know. I don't assume or jump into conclussions ever without logical thinking first. They did say "rescue" so maybe he was abused. Who knows.

Shamelessmuse wrote: Hello, run me off why? I don't pay attention to childish behavior or internet "back and forth" garbage. I don't get into that at all and I always consider the source. :blink: and I do have a life. Been busy. I have some updates, I found a few things in the last week or so. I thought about this. What do you do if you want to break a wild horse? You ride it and break him down. A mean pooch? Same thing, put him in submission mode and break him. A cat? Ditto. I also thought about talking to someone that trains birds for the shows here in Vegas..all 50 million of them :laugh: and my logic was dead on. I met up with a trainer and the truth of the matter is that people think these birds are alot smarter than they are. They're not as smart as other animals, not even close. They also treat them like a human, impossible can't be done. When a trainer wants an animal to do something he makes the animal do it immediately and starts teaching the animal right away not give the animal as much time as needed or have "patience" with it. Are parrots animals? That's "LOGIC" for those that don't understand. They're just another animal so breaking them and forcing them to submit to you does indeed work. Here's what I did. 4 days ago the bird got out of the cage and went into my room so I chased it and figured, hey this is a great opportunity to grab him and start the bootcamp process. Before I started I thought about my days as a pooch trainer and remember the helpful bit about shoving your fist or bite area deep into a dog's mouth if he tried to bite. Why not with the parrot? I grabbed him and he tried to bite me once but backed off the second time he did and into his beak and face my finger went. I used some force to make sure he understood that my bite was worse than his (they ARE supposed to be smart right?) so I shoved my finger as far as I could into his beak and he had no choice but to retreat and pull his head and neck back. After 2 more times the biting attempts stopped. Great progress I thought and he eventually calmed down and I started talking to it. After 15 min of holding it and him being quiet I put him in his cage and all was well. I did this agin later that night and shoved my finger deep into his beak only once before he got the message. Same thing all quiet, 15 min. back into the cage. It's been a few days of this and now even my gf can get him to climb onto her arm. He gets on my arm and he stays cool. He does shake now and then when I get close but it's getting better he doesn't run away from me. Also I never gave him treats during the break down period. I cut a piece of pear and gave it to him after the session and when he was back in his cage. Everything is going well so far and he even comes out of the cage twice a day. 1. Most of what I've read about parrots and training the last week or so has all been WRONG. 2. They're really not that smart, not like some people think or would like to think they are. 3. They do talk and learn (they don't learn as fast as mammals though) MUCH, MUCH faster than what I read. My bird picks up some words immediately. 4. Patience works well if you just want the bird to own you or do as he pleases. My animals do as I say and want so patience is out of the question. 5. You do have to use discipline and show who's boss. You don't have to abuse it but you have to be forceful. It's been a little over a week but only 5 days after the break in, bootcamp and my bird no longer tries to bite, and he now climbs onto our arms and never bites while we're holding it. Next week I'll try and start teaching it some type of trick even though we're happy with him now. Nothing really needs to improve. He pooped only once outside his cage so all in all..we're very satisfied with the progress. I can only say that if you have a bird that's nasty, quit wasting your time and quit trying to treat it like a human. Start up your brain and your logic and break the bird down. Give it a shot, you really have nothing to lose except a bird that stops biting. Use what natural ability we humans have over animals. Don't forget who you are and who they are.

I forgot to answer some questions. I've had him for 3 days. I like watching him it's relaxing and funny as hell. I've tried the step up thing from the outside of the cage and I can rub his beak that's it. Here's the thing though. I'm doing him a favor not him me. I know very well who runs the house and it's not my pets. I have no problem with getting him used to me but if he bites..I'm biting back. I don't go well for that whole, "bite the hands that feeds you crap". If it doesn't work too bad but I at least took him in with great intentions when no one else would. I suggest he turns into a dog soon, and show he appreciates what I did. He tried a couple of times and I've said NO really stern and he stopped. I was thinking of boot camping him by just grabbing him by force for 20 min. 3 times a day so he learns. It doesn't matter if by fear or love as long as he learns. Again, I'm doing him the favor. I'm not losing sight of the fact he's an animal not a person. I trained a friend's amazon parrot like this years ago by grabbing it a few times a day and when he bit the glove just tap him on the beak and say no. It worked for that parrot so we'll see. I'll show patience and will give him a couple weeks to get settled in then we'll see. I might sound like the wrong way to go about it but he has no choice if he gets handled by force a few times a day. :evil:

danmcq wrote: Hello, thanks for the welcome and the advice. I plan to keep him so I have no problem with the patience. A funny thing happened when I got him the first day, he was getting used to me right away and let me get close, real close with no problems so I figured to let the cage open and I went about my business. He got out and went towards the bathroom so I went after him but slowly not trying to scare it and eventually herded him back to the cage and now he's scared of me. :blink: I get close to the cage now and he goes the opposite way. It's getting better and I try to do things in front of him like surfing the net etc. So far everything is cool, he eats, sleeps well and is rather quiet except when I go to another room or gf gets home. He's very healthy and nice and fat with all the feathers. I like the bird, hopefully he'll like us.

Alright, you're a little dramatic and jumping to conclusions already. You just assumed I got it from a racist person. I'll tell them they're the first racist Black people I know, because they are Black. 2. I got it because no one else wanted the bird and I'll give it a chance. If it doesn't work the worse that could happen is we pass it down to one that wants it. Can I get some help from an adult point of view? If not can I please get directions to where I can?

Hello, Just got an AG adult, male I think and I know nothing about these birds. I have a couple of questions. 1. Can you stop them from saying a phrase? This one keeps saying "yo n*gger" every 20 min or so and makes like a phone ring tone. Funny but it gets old specially the phone ring. 2. I can hand feed it and all but he still moves away from me if I get too close. I can walk up to the cage no problem. I don't want to try and force anything but I do extend my finger to it a few times a day to get him used to it. That beak looks mighty painful if he gets a hold of me so I tend to jerk back alot when his head comes near my finger. How should I get him used to us and what should I do regularly? I don't leave food in his little tray all day long. I feed it by hand now figuring that would help in developing trust. Is this wrong, should I feed him more? Any help would be greatly appreciated, and thanks in advance. :cheer: