DebT

Okay, thanks. Fawkes is not actually pulling out feathers, just trimming off the ends, so her body doesn't know they're damaged and they live on. It's very rare that I see an entire feather, quill to tip, on the floor.

Yes, sorry, take out the period after .htm: http://www.jillwlang.com/videos.htm Normally I put a space after a web address, I forgot to this time. Sorry!

Don't know if you've all seen Oliver's videos. He's a very cute CAG whose parents post videos of him on their web site, http://www.jillwlang.com/videos.htm . Every once in a while on a Friday night, Fawkes and I sit in front of my computer and watch Oliver videos, sometimes Einstein and in the past Alex. She's picked up some things from all of them; I'm going to email Jill and ask her to post a video of Oliver taking a shower so Fawkes can watch and learn!<br><br>Post edited by: DebT, at: 2007/12/17 01:33

I've had a female CAG (Fawkes) for 2+ years now (she's 2-1/2) and a male TAG (Cinders) for 1 year (he's 4). So far I have not seen either of them really molt. I've not had greys before, had previously owned parakeets and cockatiels. When they molt, there's no mistaking it. Tons of feathers everywhere, and later they're total pinheads. My questions are: When do Greys molt? Do they start at a certain age? Or do they just lose a couple of feathers here and there at different times of the year? Since Fawkes "barbers" her short feathers, its been easy to keep track of them. She still shows lots of feathers that she trimmed at least a year ago!

Just thought I'd toss out an update for anyone who is hanging on the edge of their seat… I decided to give Fawkes and Cinders a spray bath again today since tomorrow is supposed to be snowy and cold. Neither bird liked it, although Fawkes CAG was less rattled then Cinders TAG. I think part of Cinders fear was having Fawkes in our big bathtub with him--he actually broke a wing feather close to the skin, which I had to clip off since it was sticking out to the front of him. Fawkes, oddly enough, has not groomed herself since today's shower (it's been almost 3 hours). Maybe she really doesn't know what grooming is about! I'm running two humidifiers in our sun room today, took a few hours for the humidity to get within the "comfort range" on my meter. Good ole Colorado!

Another question: when do CAGs molt? Fawkes still has her first feathers, and she's almost 2-1/2 years old. She's lost a feather here and there, but nothing like the deluge of feather dropping like my cockatiels used to have.

Hi All, Thanks for even more information! As an update, Fawkes decided to take a foot bath a couple of hours after I soaked her with aloe. She did manage to nip off a few more feathers, but hey, the more the merrier. I'm going to soak her again tomorrow if I can get her into the tub. If not, I'll find another way. I'll do both birds at the same time and see what happens. They were both shaking and distressed after their showers, but seemed to forget about the trauma after 15 minutes or so. I put them in my sun room to warm up, which stays around 80+ degrees even if its 20 degrees outside. Its hard to stay grumpy when the sun is out. Thanks for the tip on getting Aloe Vera juice at Walmart, I bought a pint at Whole Foods for around $6.00 so Walmart pricing is appealing! Being an old hippie at heart, I have a huge aloe plant that I keep around for sunburns, etc. May end up juicing that too! We may get this under control after all! Here's a grumpy wet Fawkes ~

By the way, what do I do with the extra aloe vera? Can I put the leftovers back in the bottle and refrigerate? It's very expensive, don't want to just throw it away. Also, will it irritate their eyes if I accidentally get some in there? And -- I had a choice of juice from the whole leaf, or juice from the inside of the leaf. Does it matter?

Dave, good points, all of them! I actually picked up my second grey because Fawkes was already nipping her feathers and I was told she may be lonely. The picking hasn't escalated since I brought Cinders home, it seems to be seasonal at best. I've been ignoring her feather destruction (not giving attention) because I'd read about how that can turn out to be an attention getter. But the picking coupled with her biting me more and also clipping off my hair and fabrics seems to want to make sense in my mind. Her skin does look scaly at times, and being in Colorado when fall comes it gets dryer than usual, and then the furnace comes on which makes things even worse. I tried a whole house humidifier on the furnace and it caused a white powder to cover everything--probably the minerals in our lousy water. I have two portable humidifiers that I'll put in the sun room today, maybe also move them to the cage area at night. Maybe its a combination of separation anxiety and itchy skin. I sure wish we could read their minds! Or even bring our birds to a person who can observe and say "this is what's wrong…" I just sprayed both of my birds with aloe vera, put them in my upstairs bathtub with a towel on the bottom. They both hated it, but survived, and are now drying out in my sun room. I'll post photos later today when I get more time. Good idea about spraying them together, they don't get along but I may be able to manage to keep them running for their lives in the tub rather than boxing each other.

I just went to Whole Foods and bought some Aloe Vera juice, and a sprayer at Ace. I'll let you all know how it goes.

JudyGram: How do you give baths?<br><br>Post edited by: DebT, at: 2007/12/12 20:21

Chapala: I'll try the pyrex baking dish to try to get her to bathe. I tried misting her when I first brought her home but she would totally freak out and start screaming and running away. I tried getting her into a bowl a few times, she refuses. In the shower I've tried to redirect the spray with my bare hands, and she screams and almost falls off the shower perch. I've not pursued this too aggressively since I don't want her to end up hating me/holding a grudge which I've heard can happen. Just don't know how far I can push her safely. I even had my son and two friends flap happy while I misted them, hoping she would see it as a positive thing; and have shown her YouTube videos of greys and other parrots taking showers. By the way, I did have a complete blood workup last fall when I took an online class through the Gabriel Foundation and was considering adopting from them (I needed a health cert on Fawkes). We did a giardia test at that time, and then I also did it a month ago, three samples mailed away to a California lab. Negative results.<br><br>Post edited by: DebT, at: 2007/12/12 20:24

I haven't been reacting to the feather picking while she does it, don't say or do anything. She doesn't always do it in front of me, I'll just walk into the sun room and there will be a pile of feathers on the floor. I don't know why she bites me so much at these times, she must be agitated for some reason. I've wondered about hormones.

Yes, it could be separation anxiety, but I don't know why it doesn't stop when I come home. I've added this info to my original post: "I tend to go out of town for at least a week twice a year, and in between short trips of 2-3 days about once a month or so. My habits have not changed since bringing Fawkes home." She just nipped off a tail feather.

Okay, here goes my first post! I'm sure this topic has been discussed over and over again, but my brief search on feather destruction didn't really answer my questions/observations. I've been a grey owner for just over 2 years, brought my baby CAG home in October of 2005 (she was born in late July). She was 3 months old and not quite weaned, but having raised a child and being a gecko breeder for years (among other things), and bottle feeding Fawkes occasionally at the store for a couple of months, the store owner thought it would be okay for me to take her home and continue with the baby food. I bottle fed her 3x a day for several months, then down to twice a day for several months, and once a day (dinner) until she was over a year old. In between bottles I also fed her cooked food, fresh fruit and veggie mashes, and pellets in between that. She is only in her cage to sleep at night; the rest of the day she is either in a jungle gym I built for her out of ropes and branches in our sun room, or on her stand in our kitchen while I work nearby on my computer. At about the time she turned a year old, I felt good that she was a healthy and happy bird and didn't show signs of feather issues. Then I went on vacation for several days in October 2006 and had a house sitter. Up until then I had taken her back to the store when I'd go out of town. Our sitter is my husband's photo assistant, loves animals, and is not a stranger to my pets. While I was gone Fawkes nipped the ends off of several neck and chest feathers. I took her to our vet, very well respected parrot authority in the area, and he said she was healthy. A couple of weeks after that, I went to get a haircut and when I came back there was a big pile of feather ends on the floor. I checked with a person at the Gabriel Foundation who has done research on feather destruction, and she thought maybe a companion for my bird would help. We planned to go out of town for a week in December 2006, so I decided to send her back to the store while we were gone since she doesn't seem to pick there. She was fine when I got back, and in a community cage with a Timneh that had been put up for "adoption". They seemed to get along okay, she had already been exposed to any possible illness he may have had, and so I ended up bringing him home too. I'm still feeding them cooked food twice a day, which I make myself and includes various beans, veggies, greens, fruits, brown rice mix. No wheat. I add some AviCal+ in the mix. When I serve it I warm up for a few secs in the microwave, and then mix in a bit of red palm oil or EFA oil. After that, it's Roudybush pellets, a supplemental veggie during the day, or an almond, brazil or macadamia nut (relatively new additions). Fawkes hasn't yet molted as far as I can tell (at least not the noticeable way my cockatiels used to), so her feathers have remained tattered ever since then. She picked some more feather ends in April, and then it stopped again. Then in October 2007 she nipped off some feather ends. Thinking that a change in the weather may have something to do with it, I started with the EFA and red palm oil and nuts added to her diet. I've started taking her in the shower with me every day. She won't bathe, and hates water sprayed on her, but I thought at least some humidity would help. I also have a humidifier that I put in the sunroom in the winter. I bought a full spectrum lamp, which I need to start getting her exposed to (when she gets over her fear of it). I went out of town for 3 days last week, and left all the animals home with my husband and son. Fawkes started picking big time the night I left, and all through the next day, so I asked my husband to take her to the store for boarding while I was gone. She's continued to pick all this past week. Here's a picture of her new hairdo. Since the ends are missing on her feathers, they tend to fray after that and so she has to continue to nip them shorter. I tend to go out of town for at least a week twice a year, and in between short trips of 2-3 days about once a month or so. My habits have not changed since bringing Fawkes home. I had her tested for Giardia (mailed in 3 feces samples); that was negative. Her wings have always been clipped, although I like to keep her feathers long enough that she can at least coast to where she wants to go in the house. Our Timneh does not pick at his feathers. The two of them do not get along, so have separate cages and perches. Patterns I've noticed: 1. Picking in October and December. We'll see what this April brings. 2. When she's in her picking phase, she does not seem interested in her toys. I buy or make extra chewy toys for her, and she doesn't want anything to do with them and would rather sit somewhere and nip off her feathers. 3. She seems more vocal during picking season, with some ugly annoying screeches that I ignore. 4. She's more prone to bite for no reason during these times too, like she's really crabby. Less cooperative. Reminds me of PMS. 5. She'll want to sit on my shoulder, and then will nip off my hair or try to bite holes in my shirt or sweater. Although she's not interested in biting her chewy toys (a combination of wood, plastic, paper, cardboard, straw, straws, ice cream sticks, rubbery plastic). 6. She seems to pull out some down after I put her to bed. Sorry this is so long, but I've wanted to get this down on "paper" for a long time, hoping to see some answers myself. Plus I know you need a lot of information in order to help with brainstorming. I do work at home, so I'm here for the birds a lot, but I also go in and out all day and do go out of town occasionally so she should be used to that. Well, that's our story. Any comments, suggestions, theories would be appreciated. Oh, in my desperation to make her stop, I even hired an animal communicator to do a "remote viewing" talk with Fawkes. I think I was had. Oh well. Post edited by: DebT, at: 2007/12/12 18:54 Post edited by: DebT, at: 2007/12/12 18:56<br><br>Post edited by: DebT, at: 2007/12/12 19:17

Thanks Joanne! I'm making dinner & posting, multi-tasking, woo hoo! Having lots of computer problems lately and Fawkes is picking away, nothing to make me feel worse. Ah well, life goes on.

Thanks KatB, I feel better already!

Hi All! Thanks to BirdMom, I've just joined this forum. I live in Colorado and have two greys, a female CAG named Fawkes who is 2-1/2 that I bought as a baby, and a Timneh (4 years, male) Cinders that was a pre-owned bird. I'm a freelance graphic designer near Denver, and did the web site for the African Grey Bird Shop (http:// http://www.africangreybirdshop.com) a couple of years ago as a trade out for birdie toys. That's where I bought my greys. I added a forum to their web site, hoping it would eventually be like this one, but their's hasn't quite taken off. My CAG Fawkes started biting the ends off her feathers about this time last year, so I'll be perusing this forum for answers. I've tried everything I could think of or read about to make her stop, still haven't found an answer but get new clues and insights every day. It's wonderful to have a group of people like this that truly love their greys and are willing to help others. I've belonged to a different forum (web site development) for several years, and their help has been invaluable. So, I'm looking forward to getting started with grey forums! PS: However you obtain good karma, please send me some, I've been having a tough time for several weeks and am desperate for something good to happen!<br><br>Post edited by: DebT, at: 2007/12/12 01:13