DebT

I've given up on washing my two greys, they bathe when they want to and I think that's a grey personality trait, very head strong. I've upgraded their water bowls to dog dishes and when they feel the urge (at odd times to me) they can now get more than their feet wet. Jill, we (my CAG Fawkes and I) still make it a habit of sitting down in front of the computer to watch your Oliver videos together. We've even named one of our pet rats after him! There's a photo of [ul]our[/ul] Oliver at http://www.rathappy.com/RatHappy/AboutUs.html.

Lisa, I'd be interested in the end results of your aloe test. I was tempted to do the same but just didn't get around to it. I haven't had any major changes in my birds since I started feeding them red palm oil. My congo does have some new feathers coming in on her chest, but she is an occasional picker and so I can't tell if this improvement is permanent or not. She tends to pick when I am away from her for longer than normal periods of time, so I think its more due to separation issues. She is getting a new tail feather in, and the color is fresh and bright compared to her older feathers but she's also had the old feathers for at least a year and a half. I probably won't be able to determine whether any of the changes I've made (red palm oil, spray baths, taking her to the shop for bird sitting rather than at home with a house sitter, putting her in her cage when I leave the house for more than an hour, using 2 humidifiers in our sun room and putting AviCalm in her food) for several more months.

I've been adding red palm oil to my greys' diet since December. At first they didn't like it so I had to mix it into their wet food, but now I plop about 1/2 tsp on top of their food and its the first thing they eat. They actually won't start eating at all until I add the palm oil now -- they love it! I've been buying a 16 oz jar for about $15 at Whole Foods. A note about the aloe baths: I was told by my local bird shop that the aloe juice is actually drying to the skin! I got a recipe from them for another spray and am waiting for the ingredients to arrive since I couldn't locate them locally. It involves mixing calendula extract and chickweek extract with water. They are both known in herbal medicine to help with skin irritations, so I'll give it a try. If anyone is interested, the actual recipe is 1 TB Hylands Calendula spray and 1 tsp chickweek extract to 2 cups water. Both of my birds HATE HATE HATE being sprayed. I see the latest Good Bird magazine has an article on teaching your bird to bathe. I'll have to see what they recommend. My picker has let some of her check feathers grow out, but has been chewing on her legs. I can't wait to get the new spray together and see if that helps at all.

Whoa, Benny, what is the medication for? When I was at the bird shop this week, the owner (and I) sort of concurred that my bird's problems are emotional (we'd discussed allergies, dry skin, etc.) My grey has always pulled too much down out. Even though some of her chest feathers are growing back in, there is still a lot of down in the bottom of her cage in the morning. Thinking its an emotional issue and I've tried everything under the sun, I thought I'd just have to live with a messed up bird for the next ?? years.

Thanks, I'll take all the karma I can get, we all can always use a hug!

Just thought I'd do an update with Fawkes! I've been running two humidifiers full blast in our sun room so the humidity is up. The plants are looking great! Fawkes has new feathers growing in on her chest and she's looking better. I've been feeding her red palm oil daily, added ground walnuts and crushed flax seed to her food, spray her with aloe (still a struggle). I've also been putting her in her cage when I need to leave the house, and take her to the African Grey for bird sitting when I go out of town and so far so good. I was told to take it easy on the aloe since it's supposed to be drying to the skin, which I heard the complete opposite here, so I'm not sure what's right anymore! But I can tell you that so far she's doing okay and the new feather growth is encouraging. I was also told to add a bit of kelp to her diet to maybe get her molting, which she hasn't seem to have done yet (she's 2-1/2). Thanks for all the advice!!

Hi Des, welcome to the Forum. I've been out of touch for a few days, out of town and such. Boy, I'm shocked that anyone would sell a bird that young! I'm sure the pros here will have lots of good advice for you. Best of luck, I'm looking forward to hearing more from you.

The paint pan is a great idea, I'll go get one tomorrow. I've been trying to think of what would work well for the baths, the best I came up with is a dog bowl that has an edge for perching. I'll try the ice cube trick too. Thanks for the link to the article, its a GREAT article and just what I needed. I have two humidifiers in our sun room and I put them on full blast. I go through about 3 gallons of water a day! I had gone out for a couple of hours today and when I came back (I'd closed up the sun room) it was hot and so humid in there that the windows were dripping. It felt really good! I'm sure my plants are loving it out there too. Thanks again, that article has some pretty nice steps to take to get the birdies used to water.

Wow, more great ideas folks, I'll try them all until I find what works best for us. Flax seed oil: I'll read Sally Blanchard's article. I was using ground flax seeds and oil in the mash I make, didn't know about the walnuts. There's always so much different advice by different bird experts. I'm using red palm oil and was told by one expert to grind up brazil and/or macadamia nuts in the food, then someone else says brazils are bad. One said wheat germ oil is best, which I also put in the food. I'm so confused!

Hi Joanne, Yes, I've been taking her in the shower with me ever since I brought her home the first time. I have two shower perches, one for each grey. She loves coming in the shower with me as long as I don't get her wet--she sings and talks up a stream. I've tried diverting some mist her way with my hand and she screams and tries to get away; I'm afraid she may fall off the perch if I get too insistent.

Hey Joanne, I was wondering how Buddi was doing. The red palm oil experience has been interesting: when I first introduced to my birds they hated it. I sneaked small bits into their wet food (mash) and mixed it in. Eventually they started liking it. Since at least half of their food ends up on the floor I started putting a small dollop of the oil on the top of their food. They'd eat the oil first, then later go back and eat the wet food. Then this morning I put their wet food in their bowls first, and went back to the pantry to grab the oil. Both birds started protesting that I'd given them food without the oil! They were so excited when they saw me coming back with the jar, which they recognize on sight. Anyway, I've been thinking about your post while dicing up some peppers (we're getting plowed with snow today and I'm making green chili). I do have one child, a 12 year old, who is really wonderful with the pets. The birds both like him and my husband. We don't have any cats. We do have an older yellow lab who is afraid of the birds and keeps her distance, except she does clean up their castoff food. My thought was that nothing could be happening to Fawkes when I'm not around. But, even if there is nothing going on, maybe the mere fact that she's out "on her own" when I'm gone makes her nervous. She may feel vulnerable and defenseless. SO, after all that, I think your cage idea is a really good one, that had never occurred to me before! I haven't been putting the birds in their cages because I feel bad about them being in there (yes, I feel bad when I'm at the zoo too). My dog has a kennel that she's hung out in since she was a puppy. She goes in there when she wants to get away from it all or to nap, and will actually whine if the door is closed and she can't get into it. But birds are different, they don't have that "den" mentality. But on the other hand, maybe she does feel safe in there since no one ever intrudes into that space. Next time I go out to the store or something, I'll put her in her cage and see if that helps. I'm not going any where today, I'm cocooning! Thanks Joanne!

I do leave a radio on when I'm gone, Smooth Jazz. She has toys and foraging toys too. Actually, the bathing is not a bad idea although I've noticed that she does not preen herself after I've sprayed her down which I find odd. I'm starting to suspect that she didn't learn how to properly preen herself.

Oh, yeah, hadn't thought of that. They do love cardboard!

Wow, I didn't think about that! It is an interesting idea and I have the equipment to do all of that. Maybe I can go one step further and video tape myself. The birds usually hang out in the kitchen when I leave the house, and that's where I keep my iMac. They're used to watching parrot videos on it with me, so that might be worth a shot too. Clever! Oh, my 12 year son thinks I should make a cardboard cutout of myself, hee hee.

Thanks Dave, again good and useful advice. My birds are not normally in their cages, only when they sleep at night. I'll have to maybe get them used to going in there for short times during the day and then go in with the spritzer. We'll start today!

Part of my fight against feather destruction means having to bathe my CAG several times a week with aloe vera juice. Prior to spraying my CAG, I've tried to get her into a medium sized bowl, a large bowl, a bird bath, a dripping fountain, my shower, the sink. I've tried putting toys in water bowls; even food in water bowls days before I add the liquid so she won't see the bowl as something foreign. Switching to spritzing: I've tried 3 different types of sprayers, cool juice, warm juice, the bird in the bathtub on a rug, the bird on a portable perch on the sun room floor, the bird on her play gym, holding the bird on my hand, and she's totally freaked out by getting wet. She is now, after a couple of weeks of this, getting to the point where if she has a hint of what's coming, she runs off to the highest point of her gym so I can't reach her. When I spritz her she starts squawking, flapping and running away. She acts like she thinks I'm trying to kill her. I keep telling her in a soothing voice how good the shower is for her, she's okay, it feels good to be wet, etc. When I get her somewhat wet I tell her what a good girl she is and she trembles like she's been through a traumatic event. So, are there any secrets to getting a grey to like her showers? I'm afraid that if we keep going this way she will eventually begin to mistrust me completely.

Hi, it's me again, the Queen of Feather Destruction. I decided to make this a new post rather than continue on with my old one about feather nipping. Over the last several of weeks I've been trying different approaches to dealing with my 2.5 year old CAG's occasional feather destruction after research and with help from this forum. Last night I went out for several hours and found that while I was gone my CAG nipped the ends off about 4 or 5 feathers. She hasn't been nipping for a couple of weeks (the last time was when I went away for a 3 day weekend and left her in the care of my husband). So it appears that is related to some sort of separation anxiety. When I'm home, she's not always by my side. She's usually playing in our sun room or sitting on a perch in the kitchen, so its not like she's getting constant attention from me when I'm here. So I don't exactly know why she would get anxious when I'm not here, other than the fact that she knows I've left the premises. When I leave the house I leave her plenty of food, toys, music on, tell her I'm going out for a while and will be back soon, etc. I've been doing this since the day I brought her home. She started the feather destruction about a year ago. Any budding behaviorists out there that can give me an idea of what I'm doing wrong? How do I teach her to feel okay with me being gone for short periods of time? I've already decided that any time I go out of town she goes back to the shop where I bought her, since she's comfortable there and according to them doesn't pick at her feathers. But I'd like to feel like I can go out shopping or to a movie and not have things fall apart.

Wow, this is great, there are a lot of places I hadn't heard about!

Since we don't yet have a way to do surveys, maybe this will suffice~ I find myself constantly shopping around the Internet for good prices on bird toys, food, accessories, etc. I can't say if I could ever buy all that I need at one place and its overwhelming sometimes. Do any of you have favorite places to shop for bird supplies? Best prices? Also, any BAD experiences with any suppliers? I'll start off, 1. Toys: The Bird Brain (Denver, but also on the internet at http://www.thebirdbrain.com ). They have GREAT toys, I can also get food and all other bird things there. I prefer to shop at the brick & morter store so I can see it all; proceeds go to The Gabriel Foundation. 2. Food, Toys, Accessories: Foster&Smith http://www.drsfostersmith.com . Sometimes they run specials like free shipping or discounts. 3. Cages: http://birdcages4less.com/ They also have some food and toys, free shipping over $50. I bought my cage from them, their customer service was very attentive when it arrived slightly damaged. 4. Toys, Food: http://www.windycityparrot.com/ I don't buy from them often, but I've had good experiences. Anyone else want to share?

Just finally having the time to read some other posts, and I'm glad I found this one too! I have to tell you that the reason I have my TAG, Cinders, is because his former owner, a woman, got married and her husband was jealous of Cinders. Apparently she tried to return him to the store twice (Cinders, not her husband). The first time she dropped Cinders off she and her new hubby sat in the car and talked for a couple of hours. She finally came back in and retrieved Cinders. The second time, a few months later, she dropped him off for good. I snatched him up right away. My thought was that her husband was insecure and either never had a pet or hobby, or felt threatened if he wasn't always the center of attention. Cinders is really sweet, handsome and a great addition to our family. He has recently become very attached to my 12 year old son. He tends to talk in dialogs, does both parts of old conversations, and it's been a real eye opener! Although I don't know his previous owners, I know a lot about them! (LOL) My other grey, Fawkes, is a female CAG and very attached to me. She will fly off her perch to be with me, but can also play by herself and gets along well with my son and husband. Someone once told me that the reason she picks her feathers is because she's become TOO attached to me, and it's all my fault. But reading these posts makes me feel better, like its okay to love your bird and its not abusive or unnatural to develop a relationship with them. With all the bad things that happen to people and animals in the world, its good to hear that some of us treat their animals well and LOVE them.

Thanks Nychsa, I've been to my vet twice about this. He's a well respected parrot authority in this area, Dr. LaBonde, and he seemed to just write off her as being a "picker" and said that greys are prone to that. I've been told by a couple of people that she's no where near sexual maturity, although I can't help but think since it happens in the spring and fall that there's some sort of pattern there.

I'll take a good look at this forum and see if there's a way to take a poll -- I think most forums have that capability. We can then ask people who have birds that pick/pluck if their birds are male of female. I remember hearing once that females will pluck feathers or down to line a nest to make it softer for the chicks. Maybe it's more of an instinct for them to pluck. Don't know.

Maybe we should start a bird therapy video site. We'd probably have to use animations though! Ha ha.

I emailed Jill Lang and she wrote back to say she'll be filming Oliver soon to add new videos to the web site. She said he hates water too -- but she'll try to get a video of him bathing up there. Yeah!

"You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed" -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, The Little Prince Okay, this seems to be my night for new posts. I don't know how many of you have heard of The Gabriel Foundation, but they are a parrot rescue in Colorado. They were previously located near Vail, but about 1-1/2 years ago they moved to (I think) Elisabeth, near Parker. Their offices are in Denver. I went out a couple of times to visit their facility, and was not only blown away by how much they care about their birds, but also by how many parrots have been abandoned by their owners. They also rescue birds, among other situations, from "hoarders" which seems to happen much too often. The birds' happiness and health are #1, and they are very strict in their adoption procedures. Their facilities are spotlessly clean, excellent food, and all birds have nighttime cages and spend daytimes outdoors, many in enormous flight cages. They also offer some very intensive bird ownership classes through the Internet, and have a wonderful shop called the Bird Brain whose proceeds go solely to the birds' upkeep. Many other states also send needy parrots to TGF. The first time I visited their facility I came home and immediately made a donation and offered to volunteer. This year I doubled my donation figure. If you EVER plan a trip to Colorado, a visit to The Gabriel Foundation is a must. Their web site is: http://www.thegabrielfoundation.org If you're feeling especially generous this holiday season, consider foregoing some gifts for yourself and donate to them. They do unbelievable amounts of good for innocent parrots that have been wronged by our species. I have this desire to undo some of the wrong we as humans have done to animals in our quest for pets and love of animals, and as far as I'm concerned this place is above reproach. Please take a look at their web site!