Zarlock

After my recent experience losing Tui I discovered that a lot of the good information was not well ranked in search engines. So I set about making a document that covers as much as I could about being prepared before hand for a lost bird and hints and tips to find one once lost. It is longer and more detailed than the usual one web page advice given and I have added tips to prepare before hand and some of the issues I faced that I could not see covered already. The document is available at www.mindfithypnosis.com/lostparrot.htm It is free for anyone to share and spread along the web and the parrot community. Any additions that someone wants to add just email me and I will update the document. I think this is some of the most important information I have ever learned and hope that it stimulates some action by parrot owners, I never did myself Cheers Andrew

I too have been told of birds that are returned after a few weeks to several months. I would dearly love to know if they were out in the wild all that time or caught and it just took the people who caught the bird a little time to find the right people to report it too. I was sent Tinks link and read through it, It was nice to see, however no one has spotted Tui, I wondered if that makes a difference? thanks Andrew

Today is May 23rd, 12 days after losing my companion Tui. Please feel free to link to this or copy and post it elsewhere. First I would just like to say how blown away I am with the amount of international concern, help and support I have received from all over the world regarding my loss. From those in Grey & other bird forum groups, to the many new viewers of Tui's youtube page, to the many wonderful people I have meet as I walk along the areas people have reported hearing something strange and calling me. I hope that many people will forgive me if I am unable to get back to most of the comments personally, I do try, but right at this point any time sitting at the computer is time I could be out looking. It has taken to today for me to finally decide to move on and not spend almost all my time focused on the search. This is not to say I have given up, just that I can no longer allocate all of my time to it. Just a few hours a day now. I think if anyone who has seen the video's I have on youtube will know I have constantly said never allow your parrot the opportunity to get outside or chance to fly away. I am particularly unsettled by this lack in judgment on my part because just a few days before I had made a comment to my friend that at times it seemed as if I was so limited in my ability and freedom to do much. By choice I rarely went out to socialize and when I did my thoughts were usually about Tui being alone and bored and not on me having a life. It troubles me that just after making this comment that I suddenly thought against all my own advice, that perhaps one way to enhance Tui's quality of life was to train for Free Flight. It troubles me that I had planned on firstly starting this in an indoor venue but I went on the Balcony instead. To be fair to Tui, she did do remarkable well, she did not just fly off by choice, she came looking for me because I left her sight and caught a gust of wind. She attempted to get back and caught another, panicked and flew off with the wind. After the initial chase and few hours search I came back and looked up what to do online. Flyers and posters where made and put in mail boxes and given to anyone I saw within a 2-3 square mile area of where I think she may have landed. Fliers are around town, newspaper and craigslist adverts were placed, Vet's notified and Pet shops. I would often hear other people walking their dogs calling out Tui's name as I was searching and the people in Lawrence Kansas have amazed me at their level of concern for me and Tui and there efforts to Help. We got a front page story in the Newspaper and a TV News story a few days later, as well as contacting many of the websites dedicated to posting lost parrots. There have been no sitings of Tui, but lots of people hearing strange noises at night. I have almost every night in the last 12 days gone out after a call around midnight or after from mostly the same area and several times during the day for other areas. One grey was found some 40 miles away and someone knew about tui and I was contacted. It turned out not to be her. Tui's cage is on someones balcony in the area where noises are heard, and a CD of her talking is being played along with her favourite songs. Her stands and perches are in other places. I also walk around calling each day and at one point waited 7 hrs with someone who lived in the area waiting for the sound they were hearing. I thought it was a cat, but the people insist sometimes there is additional "Tui noises" they hear on the CD as well. Here are a couple of my concerns with the whole parrot loss issue. I will in time do what I can to address them, but for now others might like to do something to secure better resources in future... 1) The Vet who found a Grey, stated that the bands are not really that helpful. They were unaware of a national log or that the bands indicate the breeder and the breeder will usually know when a parrot is lost and who it is. This may not be the case with every Vet, but it would pay to let a Vet know this any opportunity you get 2) I could not find any articles on what a parrot might do in detail once they are lost. The information is that they will stay in the area for 3 days and then get hungry and might approach someone. My experience has been people swear they hear her fly and scream at night, times when it is dark and she should be asleep. Will a domestic parrot suddenly become comfortable in trees? when they never really like being in them on leased walks. Some people say they will be lower down on the ground but again is this likely when they did not like grass when as a companion? There are no sound recordings or information on what a parrot might sound like in the wild, or if a talker will talk or revert back to squels. Some say that they might just like being 'free' but how is this possible with a grey who is a social bird and generally timid of new things. There are just so many issue that are not addressed in any form that could be. I never saw the idea to make a CD of the bird talking and play it, which to me seems a easy and practical thing to do. Apart from the standard list of what to do when a parrot goes missing that is copied everywhere, not much else seems to be out there. No pre-recordings of wild parrots, no advice of to look in trees or the ground, no mention of so many things that run through your mind when you have lost a companion. Perhaps people that know about these issue might like to make it available. Even the terrible stuff, like how long a parrot can live when stressed, or how often parrots get used to being in the wild, and how long it might take. Tui was banded but not chipped, I was waiting for the GSP technology to come about in chips and had no intentions of letting her have the chance to get away at all. I am intending on returning back home to New Zealand where they have some lameass excuses to continue with a ban on importing parrots. One that is founded in a extremely possibility when related to domestic parrots and not in any real evidence by statistics to the contary to the concerns they cite. But I am taking a few months to do it just in case she is found. If I get Tui back the very first thing she will learn now is my email address. The story from Japan that surfaced with the bird stating it's own address seems such a completely common sense idea that I had never even considered. I really do hope that EVERY talking bird owner takes that tip to heart and makes it a practice. Thanks to all the concern and comments. It really has amazed me, a rational and logical person by nature to just how much emotions can arise from the loss of a bird. And it amazes me just how much compassion there has been from complete strangers, both local helping me look and internationally from internet people. Sadly very very few people I have known longer than a few months, people who know I can't open my mouth without a story about my Tui, have offered any help looking. I guess this was a price I paid by putting my parrot before people. Yes Tui and I had an amazing bond, but it seems not so much of one with my friends I have said to people that I realize now, for me having a companion bird was a lot like a co-dependant relationship. All my time and thoughts were about her. This is my fault, she was all I really had in a country I was in without family. She was my everything and became my excuse to stagnate socially and professionally. Now that I do not have her, I am amazed at all the possibility of travel and experience I can have without her. But like any co-dependant relationship I would give it all up to have her again, but swear things will change, who knows if they really would, I did prefer having her to an active social life. Again thank you to all for your support and kind words and suggestion in the parrot community. I have been honest about my mistake and my feelings in the hopes that even in my worst moments, My experience with Tui can provide some insight and help for others with questions. I do hope she is found and returned, I do hope that if someone finds her and decides to keep her, that in time they will find this and email me photos and let me know how she is doing. I do hope they will allow me to still play a part in her life. I will eventually get another Grey. It will wait until I am in New Zealand and settled. To be honest I made a error in judgment sending an email to the NZ Minister in charge of the parrot ban letting him know what an idiot I thought he was, and understood why they have a smuggling problem there. The result being that I am on the watch list for Customs and get greeted with a strip search when I enter the country .. just in case I have parrot eggs up my arse. The breeder of Tui told me she never wanted to burst my bubble, but to her the reality is that ALL GREYS have the ability to be special, it is the quality of the time an owner gives to the bird that makes the bird who it is. In some ways this is my greatest comfort to know that while she can never be replaced in my heart; my next bird will talk the same, and act much the same and remind me in many ways of Tui. I have not given up hope, it has only been 12 days, and while this started as a thank you, it ended up being cathartic experience of ramblings as well Andrew

Having recently given up smoking I have noticed Tui's breath for the first time. I am not sure if this is my sense of smell returning or a sign of ill health. I can't make out what the smell is, (give the non smoking another week or so) but it is not her food, and I have previously noticed if we eat something with garlic in it she will smell of that. So ... is bad breathe in the Grey's a sign of anything or does it always smell and I have not noticed it before?

by the by, thank you to the person who sent a private message about using a small bowl in the shower instead of my mouth. It made the same noise filling up (which Tui makes) and she was more than happy to drink from the bowl, when we did it this morning. So now I have a replacement behavior that still makes my bird happy and is safe. Although now I have to find details of the crap in the local water supply and how safe it is for birds, since she has only ever had purified drinking water. There is another topic with views from both sides ...lol just how safe is human safe does of fluoride for parrots... lots of opinions I see online, anyone got any evidence?<br><br>Post edited by: Zarlock, at: 2007/11/08 17:11

Again I thank people for their comments. However people are still making Logical Fallacies and not addressing the question. I fully accept there are currently rules to follow, I fully accept that most are common sense, I fully accept all this, but it does not make it true. Most common sense things (such as drinking antifreeze) are grounded in science, you just are not aware of the research or are able to quote the science. I accept that some things are true without knowing the reference ... I just want the reference anyways Maybe because I am a skeptic and trained in science I am unable to get my head around not needing proof things work. Some people still believe the earth is flat (after all the bible says so at least 21 times) their belief does not make it true. The same with ghosts, aliens, the govt doing 911. Many people still believe that because the President said so, Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, some think Saddam was involved in 911. I am not attempting to be political, my point here is that when emotions are invested (like pet safety) many times we err on the side of caution just in case, rather than reality. Avian vets and medical people express the best knowledge they have until better knowledge is found. And yes, clinical research is the way knowledge is found. If a Vet says saliva is bad (which I do not in anyway disagree with) that means somewhere there is evidence for it. I am not a total dickhead, determined to kill my bird. I have stopped the drinking thing in the shower, but I would still like to know how much saliva at what concentration is considered harmful. I want to know how best to protect and train my Tui for her optimal development, And I want to know that what I am doing is good advice. Because of studies I allow her to be flighted, because there is evidence it promotes cognitive abilities in the first few years of life. I let her out of the cage almost all the time, and because of this she knows where the bedroom is and the bathroom and what we do in it. If I followed common sense rules attached to the bad foods list, I would not let her walk on the floor in case I stepped on her, I would clip her wings so I did not have to be worried she would fly away, but BECAUSE I want the best for my bird, I look for evidence behind the 'rules' to make sure they are best for my bird and not because it makes life easier for me. I can accept other peoples opinions based on common sense and better knowledge than I have, and I appreciate people giving it. But I am afraid I will never get to the point where I just accept things I am told because other people believe in it no matter how emotionally invested I am in the topic domain (pet safety). At the same time just because I want the evidence does not mean I do not accept the common sense advice given and I appreciate the comments (BMustee Apple introduction case in point).

I appreciate all the comments, but back to my actual questions which was links or information based on science. Anyone who does a search on google for 'human saliva and parrots' will get lots of sites all with the same copied list. Just because it is copied over and over does not make the list true. However this is not to suggest I don't follow the list generally, just I want to know what is true. Mr Spock, I do not doubt that Vets will say no saliva, but I would suggest they know based on studies and biology and not from heresay lists online. Therefore there must be a source document somewhere. Then again some people will say they done it for years with no adverse side effects with there birds. With the avocados, some information says it is all toxic, others say it is only the leaves and skin. The Non Stick Pan some say over 500 degrees others say none at all. Even so most of the danger lists say "may cause", an effect, which is an opinion if unable to cite a reference. There is a point where the facts become generalized and therefore wrong but repeated to the point where people get extremely angry about it, but have no evidence apart from their belief they are right because they have heard it before. Loviechick I am not disagreeing with your comments, (or anyones) I just want to know where the knowledge came from, so that I can get accurate information. The LSD in lettuce being case in point, the info I gave was wrong, a common myth that has no bases in science. I want to find the same type of thing with parrot care. As for the drinking water from my mouth, I did not do it for a long time when when the bird asked for it because I heard the dangers. Then I found people that had done it for years with no effects.

Thanks Bmustee for that. I used the food items as an example but I do not feed her any food from the list just to be sure. However, surely birds have immune systems like everything else and develop resistance to bacteria from regular contact? Our drink process is taking water from the shower into my mouth and her drinking from it, so it is not deluted and not much saliva is in it. I have also read the stories of people who did something and there bird dies, but again there are many factors that contribute to that and we humans end to attribute causes rather than have real knowledge. For example alot of people swear homeopathy works for them when in fact the cure for insomnia is a cup of coffee mixed into an earth size sphere of water and contains nothing more than $30 a bottle water. Clinical tests with Placebos show no evidence of homeopathy working but since someone took it, and they got better that is their proof. (despite it usually being whatever illness running its natural course) No offense but I would like to get source documents that show the effects if there are any. Iceburg lettuce contains trace amounts of LSD but no matter how much salad I eat I don't get high. I want information on the actual toxicity if there are any, just to see if the rules I am following have real effects. I am sure some if not most do, I just want to know

I know everyone has opinions about what is safe and not safe for our beloved pals eg Silva/Avocado/Apple seeds being bad but I am wanting to know where the science or facts are for these things if anyone knows. For example in my field of hypnosis people say we only use 10% of our brains and the Sub Conscious records everything in our life perfectly, both of which were shown to be total rubbish as early as 1932. Yet these myths have been parroted so much by people they are taken as fact when they are clearly wrong. I figure the same must be said for parrots, and since Tui enjoys drinking water from my mouth in the shower, and avocado is not recommended because of only the fat content, I am wanting to find real scientific evidence for the safety rules we follow. All too often these types of things pop up based on a few peoples experience which as valuable as personal experience is, it is very subjective and not at all considered reasonable evidence in the world of science. So any links to articles would be appreciated. Cheers Andrew

Siobhan Yes she has managed to move on like most of us from New Zealand have had too. I rearrange her cage to give her something to do and take her mind off the humilation of France besting us. We are comtemplating doing a similar type of video about how the New Zealand government won't let her move there (so far a 15 year ban on imported parrots and pets) and how we feel about this silly Law and the heart ache of not being able to return home after a overseas trip. (I am not going to leave her so we can't go home)

Arfus, I disagree somewhat. My grey was my first bird, and the only bird I wanted. I did do a tonne of research brought books looked at forums and such but for me I wanted a grey and I did not see any point wasting my time and money on another bird to train for a parrot. I wanted the grey for its intelligence and speaking ability, and I am thankful I did not start off with and still have another bird. In an apartment one parrot is enough, and for the attention Tui gets, one parrot is enough, (hell ask any of my friends who comes first and how often I say no to outings). If you want a grey commit to it, learn as much as you can, and then be prepared to loose much of your spare time and alot of your social life. Your grey will like any children come first and it is a giant step from being 'single' to having a grey parrot, like it is being single to having a baby. Part of being prepared I think is to be ready to make the committment.

Greys tend to be more vocal at dawn and dusk. I would think that once yours begins to talk the noises will be replaced with words. What you need to do is pretend you can't hear the noises you don't want from your grey, when it is quiet again talk to it but don't make any comments on the sqwalk. I made this mistake so now in order to say "shhhsss be quiet" or "what you don't squell, what happens if you squell you go in the cage" Tui needs to actually squell (sp?) I did notice that she started more often after hearing kids playing and kids being kids let out loud cries and high pitched noises so this is now her response when she see's or hears a child. Also it could be the beginnings of mircowave or appliance sounds that have a high pitched tone

The head bobbing I believe is a natural thing the birds do. When I saw it I thought it looked like dancing so I associated the word "Dance" to it by saying it or "let's dance" when I saw her doing it. I would also get up and Dance myself saying "Let's Dance" and "Dance". I am not sure if it is because I am a white man or just have no ability to dance but my dancing was a little like a heavy metal rocker with lots of head bobbing. (like her) For a few months part of our morning routine was to play a few songs and dance around Which is where she learnt to sing as we dance. The songs were the same each time. Tui's has two food bowls one is fill of pellets and the other is whatever I am eating at the time. So it gets cereal, salads, curry, pasta and all sorts of human food. She does tend to eat when I do, so when I make somethng I give it to her as well. She comes in the shower with me everyday, sits on a perch and gets steam. Tui is not so keen on getting into water despite my attempts to get her to use a bath bowl I got tui at 6 months old, and had her for almost two years now

Thanks Kasia, Just a warning and I put it down to always leaving talk back on. Tui will NEVER shut up unless she is eating or a new person comes over (I get 30 mins quiet). Even then she often spits her food out to tell me something. I would change this suggestion to having it on when your home, not all the time your out (unless your working during the day), so that your bird learns to talk when your there and not all the time. I am not really complaining about this, but it would be nice sometimes to be able to watch TV in quiet (she is in the lounge) and when I have ladies over and tui is saying "what are you doing ... stop that ... come on stop it be a good girl" it is a somewhat distracting ha ha

You know I never put it in my taming youtube video, but a syringe and grey baby formula works well for bonding esp with older greys and new owners. Gives you a easy approach (through the cage) at bonding and takes the bird back to the memories of being hand raised (in theory) and of course makes sure they get good nutrition which will fatten him up and make him healthy. Also peanuts with the fat content will help. I know Tui seems to love Apple cider Vinagar in apple juice which is a health tonic for humans and pets http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html but as the site says it has to be real stuff from a health food store not from a supermarket, and I dilute her does down more than my dose. Oh a by the by, add baking soda to the ACV just incase the acid causes some stomach issue with Merlin<br><br>Post edited by: Zarlock, at: 2007/10/19 16:16