Christina

I think it depends on the bird. I have one that has to have 10 hours a night or you have a very grumpy bird. Finnigan can work on 7 hours with no problem. I try to have the minimum be 8. But, like you guys, I go with the sun. I find also that if my birds are the lanai outside when the sun goes down, when we come inside, they are ready to go right to bed, if they are inside with the lights on when the sun goes down they seem to go right by that time and never notice that it is time for bed. If that makes sense. If I'm home, I definetly try to have them outside for the sun going down. They watch all the herons and seagulls and crows in the sky heading for their roosts and we have a small flock of nanday conures that apparently roosts somewhere in our neighborhood as they usually go over our house, presumably for their roost. I think that sky activity helps them to realize it's time for bed. I could be mistaken, but it makes sense to me.

They sound wonderful Carol. What a joy!

That is awesome. I want to try making mine out of tubing. I have one I made using two hula hoops. Just screwed them together and wrapped it in sissel. Works great, but it is kind of stretching with gravity. I think my next will be out of the tubing you used.

I think you have received excellent advice. My son (14) also wanted a bird. We fostered one for a while and had an arrangement much like you are speaking of...it didn't take long and he grew wary of the constant attention that the little bird needed and the mess she made and shirts she chewed through. He liked all the attention when he wanted it, but when he didn't have time, it was annoying to him. He also is a very good boy and gets fabulous grades and loves animals. It worked out well fostering, because someone eventually wanted little Tookie and he had no problem letting her go. This from a young man who all but begged for us to get him his own bird. I know all situations are different, but at this age, it is hard, especially with a busy schedule, which will fill up even more with young ladies as they get into high school, to make a commitment that a bird needs. Some kids can do it, you can make that determination, just thought I'd share my experience.

That is funny. My husband calls Finnigan Pigeon all the time..."come here Pigeon" and so on.

Natasha do you do that scrapbooking with photos? I tried that once but it took so much time. Now I just make my books on Shutterfly. I like to exercise at the gym too but, I am very lazy and only go sometimes, I don't know why I always feel better when I'm exercising reguarily.

I thought it might be interesting to see what hobbies anyone on the board has time for, other than taking care of your birds. I'll go first...I love to scuba dive and thankfully live in Florida so I can go often. I also ride a motorcycle (Harley Davidson LowRider) and ride with a nice group of people. That is pretty much all the time I have outside of the house and that is quite divided up as I don't like to leave the birds to much. At home I love to read and am trying to teach myself how to sew, now that isn't easy! :-) Can't wait to hear what everyone else loves to do.

I'm from Tampa, Florida and I own property in Tennessee, which I can't wait to finally build a house at the top of mountain and a BIG aviary! It's good to have dreams. Azzie, New Zealand is lovely, my husband was offered a job there, we had to turn it down because we couldn't take our birds with us. Sigh, so sad.

Hang in there MyAfricanQueen. My husband's blue and gold loves him best...I kept giving him treats and trying, but only when hubby wasn't around, as when he was there I just received a bite. Loki likes me okay now...but I still sit in the back of the bus according to Loki! :ohmy: Now, Finnigan didn't like my husband or son at all when she came home, my husband kept after her to step up, eventaully, she just begrudingly stepped up to get him to leave her be, but it turned from a grudging "oh, okay", to now, she loves him and lifts her foot when she sees him (I'm still her favorite though!). I think it's harder when you have other birds that love you being there, there isn't that incentive to keep going and earning the love and trust of the one "difficult" bird. But, if he decides to keep trying, in the end, I think it will be a fabulous relationship.

That picture made me laugh out loud. How cute!

Tycos_Mom...no, she does not have walls, no seperate air systems or anything like that. She has about an acre of land filled with free flight aviaries and cages with birds that have been "given up". Even her garage is full...it's very sad. We did have to come to her place and meet with her, whereby we not only interviewed her and her process, but she interviewed us and where we take our birds, what they are exposed to and so forth. She is even pretty adamant that once you get past that first initial vet check, not to take your bird to the vet (unless sick) as that is where you pick up illnesses. Don't misunderstand me, I know that taking my birds where others are is a calculated risk. I have also done the pet-sitter route where we had someone come in and feed and water the birds. I didn't feel that that worked for me...I worried more about them being alone so much of the time and felt terrible that they got one hour a day of stimulation, I actually cut my vacation short to come home I felt so bad, for me it was a better to take them someplace. It's personal preference and whatever makes you feel comfortable and able to enjoy your vacation. Whatever, anyone's choice, just know that your bird will be fine and I think appreciate you more when you come home.

I just back from a week long vacation and I figured I would report how Finnigan did at our boarding facility. She did fabulous! I take my birds to a sanctuary here in Florida, she keeps them on a "boarding porch" outside. All this is completely foreign to Finnigan, who stays inside our house and is out of her cage anytime I'm home. I do bring her cage with her so she has that familiarity, but other than that, it's all new. She did just fine. I would recommend anyone taking their bird somewhere, if you can take familiar things, even just their toys, that would be best. I always tell my animals what is happening and when to expect me back. I do keep travel cages out and work on getting them in and out of those prior to the vacation or do some harness work so they are ready to go. After a week, we picked up our birds, the first day home was spent with a lot of beak grinding and resting in the same room with us. The next day, it was as if we never left. They just got right back into their routines. I love my birds beyond reason, but know that we need some time away. Take heart, our birds will be fine and this time away also probably stimulates them and maybe they enjoy the change a little bit too. Just take your time, prepare them, and make sure you have a good boarding facility to take them too. Then go and enjoy our vacation.

I have a TAG. I can't really comment on the differences as I have never owned a CAG, but from what I can see and what I've read, you have the obvious physcial differences and beyond that it just comes down to the individual bird and their own personality. The same for male/female. Most people don't even know what they have until they DNA test after they have their bird. So, that doesn't make any difference either. Which bird appeals to you more, the darker/smaller bird, or the larger/lighter bird? I just liked the smaller bird, that is how I decided on a TAG. I think TAG's are less expensive as well. Research to find a good breeder and talk to people, there are lots of people here who would recommend their breeder. I found Finnigan, my TAG, at a bird show. She was clipped when I got her, but she is fully flighted now. My personal opinion is that it's better mentally for the bird and physically, she gets lots of exercise flying around. Advice for a new bird owner, it's a huge commitment. If you don't have the time or you don't want to clean bird crap off your furnture and floors every single freaking day, most of the time two or three times a day don't do it. They depend on you mentally to be a part of the flock, you need to be there, if you have a busy schedule and can't be there, don't get a bird. I'm not saying you can't go on vacation or if you plan to the go to the beach or wherever for the day, you can't do it, but birds needs more time and attention than a dog or cat, so be ready to have a two year old in your house for the next 50 years...and if you can picture that, then go for it. Good Luck!

Finnigan is a bull when it comes to electronics...if you leave your cell phone on the counter, forget about it. My poor husband left his work blackberry on the counter, she took most of the buttons off and he had to tape them back on. He goes to a big wig meeting and one of the other execs looks at him and says "is that tape holding your phone together?". :laugh: And if you try to take it once she has it, you better be ready for a fight, she won't let go and she starts growling and screeching, she eventually gives up, but only with a big ole bite!:evil:

I agree with Judygram. Take this lady's offer, but you and your grey meet with her so, your grey is comfortable and you are comfortable. We take our birds to a bird sanctuary. It is kind of a rescue, I'll post a web link. She doesn't let our birds in with the others, she keeps them on her porch during the day so they can see the others and brings them inside at night so they are comfortable. They actually face the macaw flight area, and my blue and gold just goes crazy calling to them and they line up to talk back to him. Finigan does a wonderful macaw imitation, so gets into the spirit of things as well. They have a great time (I think). I might see if Finnigan can spend some time over by the greys, (they are on opposite sides of the property from the noisy macaws) but I don't know if Finnigan would like being seperated from Loki. http://www.flabirdsanctuary.com/index.html

So, tell us, how is her personality coming along? Is she still running from you? Or has she perked up. We had a caique (white bellied) and she was an absolute riot! We loved her to death. We bought her from a pet store (our very first bird ever, so we didn't know any better) she was sick the whole time we had her. I think we spent triple in vet bills than what she cost and remember we bought her from a store, so they are double the price of a breeder. Well, despite her illnesses, she was a great bird, but eventually succombed to her issues.

I'm sorry you have had no responses. Hopefully you will look at this. I do agree with you that it is just as hard if not harder to get that harness off than on. Finnigan won't get off my hand, so I have to do it one handed, which is difficult, and like you, she tries to bite me. I do try to give her something else to hold, a favorite treat, she usually tosses it aside, but hopefully she keeps it long enough for me to get the waist of the harness loose. I loosen it all the way so it's a big loop then try to ease that around her wing rather than picking it up. Once, the one wing is done, I reoffer the treat and try the next wing. She will usually pull her head out once her second wing is loose. Lots of tries and a few good bites got us to this routine (which I can hardly call a routine, as she still doesn't much care fo the harness). At any rate that is what I do. I hope that you and Ursula figure out a routine that each of you can live with. Takes some practice, just try to keep it calm. And when she did seem really really upset about it. I stopped trying to take it off, put her on the counter with her harness 1/2 on 1/2 off, and just let her take a bit of a break. I think she felt more in control if we just sat for a minute or two before trying to get the harness off again. Good luck.

I think nanmadpad made their concerns for their grey, and their decision to clip quite clear. Just because you don't agree with them Mistyparrot, doesn't mean that they are incorrect. This is an open dialogue and pets like children are raised many different ways for many different reasons. We all do the best we can and hope they are right in the end. I personally think a room made of nothing but glass for a flighted parrot poses significant riks. I don't know about anyone else greys, but Finnigan can fly fast, and her vertical speed is just as fast as her horizontal. I would definetly recommend, visual cues on all glass surfaces.

I think that anyone who chooses to clip for the safety of their birds such as Raposa or people with young children who can not be trusted to close the doors when necessary, do what is right for them and their birds. I couldn't imagine being a bird that got out and starved to death or froze to death. It takes a lot to make that choice and just because its made at one point in time, doesn't mean it won't change. I personally don't have any of those situations and do have fully flighted birds. Kaedyn, your story made me happy to be a member of this board. Such devotion to your grey! Karma for you! Oh, and for anyone that doesn't have stickies or lives far away from the store...you can use painters tape on any glass surface the same as a sticky. It's not a permanent solution, as it doesn't look great, but it works in a pinch and leaves no residue on the glass.

Thanks for the video. I think your baby is telling you he wants to stay with you. One thing I would probably do is move that one perch he gets his wing over...in case he falls this way his wing won't get caught on it. I would just move it back. One thing I do with Finnigan who loved her cage when I first brought her home as a baby, but within a few weeks acted just like Ecko, is give her lots of foraging activity. I take dixie cups (the ones kids use in the bathroom, not waxed, just paper) and put some of her favorite foods in them and squish them in between the bars of her cage. She sees what I put in them, so she knows to go and get it. I also use those corn husks that are sale in the grocery store to make enchiladas (not tortillas, these are actual dried corn husks) and fold some treats into them and place them in her toys or a bag or between the bars, so she also has to find them and extract the treat. I let her see what I'm doing so she knows there is new stuff in her cage. Now, she still gets cranked when its time to go into her cage, we always have a little game of chase before she goes in. But, once she is in there, she makes her initial complaints, then is off to see what new stuff she has in her cage. Anyway, just some suggestion. Hope it helps.

I think even once they get used to it sometimes they just don't want to put it on. Sometimes Finnigan will put hers on with no problem, other times, she gives me a little bite and if I don't take the hint, it gets harder and harder. Needless to say, she has trained me to accept a little bite as a "no, I don't wish to participate today" and we don't go outside. Anyway to answer your question....I use the same process as Jane, use her favorite treat, so its a positive experience, baby steps, we did head in the hole about 100 times before we progressed to the wing, then both, then tighten. I've been working with my blue and gold for over a year and still haven't gotten him into his harness (he was older when I started him on his harness training). But, I shall persevere and will hopefully get him in there before I die of old age. :-)

I have just one other bird, a blue and gold macaw. The birds tolerate one another. It seems to go back and forth who is going to dominate from day to day. One day Finnigan (TAG) will run Loki (B&G) off a perch or boing and the next day it will be opposite. They don't usually ever hang out together though. I will tell you a funny story though. Loki loves to try to get into Finnigans cage and play with her toys or take her food. Mostly, she runs him off. This particular day, there was something in the back of Finn's cage that caught his eye. Now to get a visual her cage is much smaller than his. His body is taller than the door to her cage, and his tail is longer than his body, so for him to get into her cage, he basically has to wiggle and shimmy around her toys to get his body and tail into her cage and once he is in there he looks like we stuffed him in and he can't really move around. So, he goes into her cage and gets his whole body and long long tail in there and is sitting on one of her perches with about 2"-3" to the top of the cage from the top of his head and about the same amount of space from the bottom of his tail to the bottom of the cage. Well, Finn has her favorite perch which has basically just enough room from the top and sides of the cage for her to roost for the night. I guess he must see her on this perch all the time and decided he wanted to get up there, he is trying to squish is fat butt on this little perch but keeps hitting his body on the other perch and the back of the cage his head on the top of the cage. He is hanging by his beak on this cement perch, trying desperatly to pull himself up but doesn't have the space or the leverage. I don't think he ever figured out why he couldn't get up there. It was the funniest thing I have ever seen. Of course then Finn took exception to him being in her cage and decided to run him off, so every time he pulls himself up, she pecks his head, so, he hangs by his toe to the bottom, but then his tail goes up and she gets that, so he decides to leave, but basically she trapped him in there, poor Loki is trying to get out the front of her cage, but he has to bend down to do so and his tail was all crooked up on her toys and Finn is on the door, really beaking at him...Loki's face was soo red in frustration but he didn't dare exit. I finally saved him and gave Finni her cage back.

No worries ConnieLu, just like everyone said, she will adjust and her wings will grow back. Cflanny....have you tried giving your son a towel...so when he exists his room, if ZZero flies at him, he can hold the towel up, like a wall, then ZZero has to change directions and can't reach him....we did that and it didn't take much time (a few weeks) before Finnigan gave up trying to get my son. They still have an altercation every now and then, but for the most part, the game for her wasn't as much fun when she couldn't reach her quarry.

I'm somewhat surprised at that apathy that this bill is being met with by everyone. It's an affront to our individual rights. Although, I agree with David that this is the first step in a long process, it is much easier to get this issue tabled in committee than it is once it has passed the House of Represenatives and is off to the Senate for their approval. The length of time that is takes to pass is not the issue...do you never want to buy another bird? What if, god forbid, your grey passes? Are you willing to let the government tell you that you can not buy a new bird? Do you really want the government telling you what pet you are allowed to have in your home? This is a serious issue and for all those that love their birds, you should take 10 minutes out of your day, write your representative. Here is a web-site to find your rep and send him an e-mail. https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml Sorry, guys, but it's this apathy and indifference and belief that the government knows what is doing that will destroy our way of life. We spend hours posting about our love for our animals, but won't take 10 minutes to write our congressman or representative? As Americans we have a duty to step up and be heard when something like is on the table...I guarantee you PETA and all the animal welfare groups have stepped forward. Sorry to rant, but I hope this email moves you forward..the committee meets tomorrow....write today.

Joolesgreyuk, just to clarify, hot dogs and dairy products are not a regular meal item. These are only given as occassional treats, as they really are not good for them. Fresh vegetables, fruits, and a pelleted and seed diet are Finnigans mainstays with only the treats that are not good for her given very sparingly (sometimes she doesn't see a hot dog for months) and things like the seseme sticks given more often.