Dave007

Well, I agree that you have a special problem and it's one that can't really be diagnosed correctly. In your second reply post, other things were spoken about which wasn't known in your original thread. Now, I could give you all the standard answers that may help but I'm gonna go with what I now know and also what I see which is in your avatar. Obviously, your bird is showing sexual behavior in that photo. I could tell you that at this time of the year most greys are very hormonal and act that way but now you say that this has been going on for months. I have a grey who does something slightly similar but only because I had to deal with him concerning a major physical problem which took a few years to cure so I had to constantly handle him in many different ways and he eventually became very attached but I will say that what he does isn't as strong as you describe with your bird. It's hard to tell a person what to do when they've only had a bird a very short time. Even people here who buy baby birds are told to let the bird get used to a new house--new people--new habits in the house--new surroundings before setting up a certain type of relationship. We tell people that there's no set time so they shouldn't put time limits on things. I still believe that 7 days isn't enough time to solve many existing problems but right now, you're doing many things which are good. Your main problem is that when you touch or have contact with your bird, he shows very affectionate somewhat sexual behavior. I could say that I don't know the history of the bird nor the age nor the way the previous owner dealt with this situation but all of these things are past tense although you may wanna find out some of those things. I don't even know whether you actually know the bird is a male or female. Not insulting you, just telling you that concise info is better to have. """"He also used to shiver, squeak, droop his wings, and carry on for both of us but since we've brought him home and since we've both been handling him, he's been quiet around me and only done the "dance" when my husband is talking to him or holding him."""""" So I'm gonna assume that this behavior has lessened somewhat and what you may need to wait for is for the behavior to lessen even more--I'll say it again---7 days isn't enough time for a bird to make major changes especially when the bird is an adolescent or mature aged bird. Your bird may be carrying over behavior that he did in the past. That's called history or baggage. All preowned birds come with baggage and therefore need longer adjustment periods. That baggage could involve anything--serious aggression, being cage bound, unwilling to have physical contact with the new owner etc. You may think this is permanent but I don't think so but there again, that's just my opinion. You have a bird who is overly affectionate( temporarily hyper sexual) which is baggage. My opinion is to let this bird adjust in it's own good time. There's nothing that you've said that suggests that you'll have a problem in applying medicine or inspecting for injury. Many people use towels for that and it usually takes 2 people to do that which is normal. I could say that to me, there's no problem but then, I have a lot of experience with parrots so me telling you that really doesn't solve the way you feel. I would suggest putting a heavy duty cowbell in the cage so that he can get aggressive with it. Believe it or not, that bell becomes something he'll cuddle up with at night. I'll say that he needs some hard pieces of wood around so that he can chew it up and destroy it. I'll end this up by saying one other thing although I don't agree with it . I don't agree with it because to me, there isn't a problem that exists but If this is very frustrating and bothersome to you and your husband, you can go to a vet and have the bird examined and it's possible that he can give him some medicine to calm him down. This procedure is done to females who are always laying eggs, who are agressive because of doing that and who are becoming weak from doing that. I'm only trying to give you options, facts and ideas.

All of the sexual behavior he/she has now will continue throughout his/her's life. Discouraging it? You can curtail or shorten what your bird is doing but you can't discourage something which nature is telling your bird to do. Take your bird off of your knee or wherever your bird is. Put your bird on an area where it can't climb on you. Leave your bird alone for 1/2 hr. If you wanna hold your bird again, fine but be prepared to do the same thing if your bird does the same thing. Repeat as many times as necessary. If you 're gonna hold your bird again, put him on your knee and stop petting him when he's in a sexual mood. In that situation when all of this is happening with one person ( lets say the evening while watching TV) the other person shouldn't be involved. Your bird picked one of you to get amorous with and it should be that person that deals with it. When your bird decides to do this with your husband, you shouldn't be involved. When your bird decides to act this way with you, he shouldn't be involved. A part of socializing a bird is letting the bird build up parts of a relationship with each of the people that are involved. If your husband is the one who's having this problem more than you, he simply has to learn different ways to position the bird when he holds him or has him near him. There are places on the body where a bird won't be able to do that even if it wants to. Your husband may be simply petting the bird too much when the bird is with him/her . Greys don't require that type of attention all the time. When they get older, they're not known for being *cuddly* birds. When they're just relaxing with a person, they're quite comfortable so that's enough. Just being with a person gives them satisfaction. As a bird gets older those habits will lessen but never go away. If a parrot is in with another parrot and each is affectionate with each other, that'll amorous behavior is going on, it'll be the other parrot that stops the process when it gets played out. Many times biting each other is their solution. 7 days isn't enough time to judge all of the habits a bird will show towards new owners. Judgements can't be made because in the past, even though you've known the bird and had regular contact, remember that your friend was also there and your bird was not living in his new environment and I'm sure you weren't doing things to that bird at your friend's house which would sexually stimulate the bird. If this is your first grey, you'll need more time to learn more about his/her complex personality.

I've seen this a few times. The area that's outlined lacks certain minerals that normally keep a Congo's beak black. A lack of these minerals isn't anything to worry about. A vet can't change the color because there's actually nothing to correct. Your bird isn't related to a TAG. Your bird's beak may change back to a darker color but I doubt it. The beak loses nothing even though these cerain minerals are missing. He's also doing to the upper and lower mandibles what he normally does as well as other greys---scraping them on rough surfaces which makes the beak lose it's shiny, smooth black color and turn to gray. Don't worry about it . Your bird's beak is as strong as other greys who have a solid black color. Soon enough, that brown area will also be scraped.

Many birds put their pellets in their bowls because it makes the water sweet tasting which they enjoy. Others put seed into bowls to soften up the outer skin.

They're just your garden variety of plain old oak trees. I've got a large forest in the back of my house. The trees are approx 100 yrs old and every winter lots of branches die and fall off and those are the ones I use. I just take branches of different thicknesses and cut them up into different lengths and thoroughly clean them. A person can use a hand saw or electric saw to cut up pieces. I use a table saw because I'm too lazy to use a hand saw. '''Also, is there any kind of hardware that would be harmful?''' I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean by hardware but if you wanna know how it's put together, I use screws and nails. The designs don't have to be fancy. Those 2 above have no particular design but the ones in trees also have no design either and my birds aren't fussy. The tray is 3/4 in. thick and is coated with white polyurenene which makes it waterproof. I use white cause it's easy to see what the mess is. The edges of the trays are old door frame moldings. I got the legs from Home Depot. They cost $2 per 5 ft. That's about it.

*****Both our greys are 13 months old and not a single word. ******* Many times, having 2 or more greys around each other lengthens the amount of time before they talk. Right now, it's possible that they find other bird's natural parrotese language much more attractive which isn't unusual. It may also shorten the amount of things they'll say in the future.

Negative about what? What areas are you referring to? What types of subjects are you referring to? Many times, negativity is necessary in order to make a strong statement after hearing and reading certain things. If only positive things are posted,basically this board will turn into a *fluff* board. I've seen it before and lots of people eventually leave.

WHAT IS the matter with you parrot people? Because, let's face it, parrot people are weird. Now don't deny it or send me indignant notes about how normal you are - you're not fooling anyone. Think about it: When a normal person brings a pet such as a dog or a cat or a goldfish into their homes, they continue to lead normal lives. They socialize with other normal people, they continue to listen to the same types of music, read the same types of books, and eat the same types of foods as before. You, my parrot- afflicted friend, do not. So how odd are you? Let's make a list! You are a scholar of psittacinism. You can spell psittacinism. You scour the Internet and bookstores for research material on parrots. You join discussion groups and share in agonizing detail each tiny movement of your parrot with other parrot owners, who then share a more-than-unusual interest in everyone else's parrot's poop. In fact, poop now occupies so much of your thought and free time that you have lost interest in politics, career, and IRA earnings. You have begun avoiding normal people, because your parrot seems to have taken a dislike to normal people. This includes your spouse. When he (or she) walks into the same room as you and your bird, there is obvious resentment at the intrusion. However, you are trying to stop reacting this way. You eat parrot food. That is, you have taken to eating the special healthy people food you fix for your parrot. It's so much easier than separately preparing the usual junk for yourself. This is, in general, a good thing. (Just remember to avoid the birdie bread you made with Harrison's.) You have rearranged your furniture to accommodate your bird and future birds. If you are severely afflicted, you have bought a new house especially designed for parrotly needs, including vaulted ceilings, screened-in porches and rooms with drains in the floor. You buy only healthy and interesting pet toys that cost the equivalent of two months' salary and can be destroyed by a beak in five minutes. You ask store clerks questions such as, "Is the dye on this wooden block human grade?" and "What types of chemicals were used to treat this suede strip?" and "Where can I find your organic, preservative-free unshelled imported almonds?" You make your own bird toys. Sometimes you do this even when you can find bird toys you like. "My toys are cheaper to make, or more interesting," you tell yourself. And then you set up an Internet store or auction site to sell your toys. You use your other talents For the Good of Parrots. You make quilted cage covers, human clothing protectors, jewelry designed to be worn by humans and chewed on by parrots, paintings of parrots, key chains engraved with the parrot's name. Parrots are the dominant species on earth and they are simply using us to perpetuate their race and eventually take over. If you doubt that, just remember that it's the dominant creature who gets other creatures to take care of it. Think about all you do for your bird, the hours spent cleaning his cage, cleaning the floor, cleaning the food and water dishes, cleaning the bird toys, cooking food, cleaning the walls of said food, bandaging your skin from the latest nip. Then think about how you sit down exhausted and feel grateful and honored to look upon his pampered plumage and big dark eyes. This is not normal. You'll never see a dog person made misty eyed by the beauty of their pet slowly lifting its leg. I say it's high time we parrot people reclaim our lives and save the human race from certain demise. Be strong - it won't be easy or done quickly, but by acting together we can thrive as a species again. I'll be right there with you, just as soon as all the parrot people finish sewing their bird cosey and taking the pellet casserole out of the oven. There are therapists available to help with your situation.

I made them . Those are about 6 yrs old. I go into my back yard and cut up all the dead branches that fall off the trees and make those things above. The one on the right is heavier than the other one. I've 3 other old ones. Much cheaper than commercial stands and the birds never bitch or complain.

No, you can use both as long as the machines aren't next to each other. That would defeat the purpose. Humidity will make dust heavier. A purifier won't pull in a lot of dust even though you feel a difference Purifiers are meant to suck in the type of dust that's floating around a room and stays floating around until it nears the purifier. That type of dust is invisible and it's in most rooms. In a bird area, there's constant dust and dust that's in a bird room is actually dander which is heavy. It's not the type of dust that stays in the air. It's heavy, falls on furniture, on the cage, all over the floor and everything that's near the general area of the bird/birds. You'd be better off having an exhaust fan that will really pull all sorts of dust in, heavy or light. When purchasing a purifier, there's different sizes specifing the amount of space that it'll cover so a purifier works best in that amount of space which usually involves a room that's enclosed. And those purifiers never state anything about their success with bird dander. Bird dander is much heavier than .003 microns

There's loads of live trees and live plants that are safe but rarely are live trees used in bird rooms. Maybe you could check into having some artifical plants around that will make your bird room attractive although you have to watch what they chew but as far as trees go, most people get real branches and build their own design and the goal should be to make those branches as irregular with different thicknesses as possible so that they are similar to actual branches that are on trees. Most real trees, whether they're safe or not, grow outdoors.

That's probably why he was picking at them. 2 reasons-- 1--the feathers were dying or dead and 2--the skin was probably dry, itchy which is common during all molts. Give him cooling baths or cooling sprays frequently. Keeping the skin moisturized and supple helps a bird get through this irritating time.

If you didn't see any chewed up tail feathers on the bottom of the cage or at the base where the tail feathers come out of the body then it was parobably a molt. If he's a bird who's between 9 to 14 mts, it was probably his first major molt.Usually, the first major molt and all molts that follow will occur in the same way as you described--one day there's nothing there and the next day they're all over the place. The 9 to 14 mt time line could vary by a couple of months.

Who's mad at you? Who's looking down at you? I know it wasn't me. It was the singing that got to me. It left a lasting impression. Mom and dad should have said that the batteries in the camera were exhausted and then said that you should go out and play.

JungleDreamz You singing? Oh man, I remember hearing you sing way back when we were young. Those were experiences that a person doesn't normally forget and as I think back, I know why you don't sing anymore. If it was me making the decision, I definitely would have let you go out and play. After all, the house needed a little peace and quiet. ================================================================= All joking aside and not to beat a dead horse---partial opinion and actual facts. I've already spoken about videos being released. That's a fact. Maybe people will be interested or maybe no one will be interested in what I write here. What I said about forming a personal bond with another person in that lab--- I said that Alex had a bond with everyone, not just her. That's the way it was supposed to be. It started when he was very young. Problems never occurred by doing that. What a parrot ( any parrot) doesn't know about things that exist will never hurt that parrot. The way it is is the way it is as far as that parrot goes. Private owners of greys and other parrots are the ones that work on personalized one on one relationships with their bird and very often many of those people realize that by not socializing that bird into the whole family from the very beginning, problems eventually occurred. It comes up on this board and other boards countless times. *my bird only likes me and hates my husband or my wife or my child. Please help!!:confused:* Over the years, just give me a dime every time I've heard that and I'd be rich. Alex was socialized into the whole group of people there. I read that link above and the way it's worded, there's obviously nothing there that a person could get sued over. I've already seen a couple of stories come out concerning what went on there. All after the fact. People can say anything about anything and as long as it's worded correctly, legal actions won't occur. To me, it holds little weight. There is no proof positive. No one knows about their motives. I'll give another example--Michael Jackson had to see a skin specialist because of a disorder called Vitiligo. I'm very familiar with that disorder because my sister in law has that disorder. I saw it develop and it was obvious to me about what was going on. I saw on MJ throughot the years. It starts out small and as years go by it eventually spreads throughout the skin. Well, there was a technition that worked with that specialist and came out of the woodwork and decided to reveal to the world that during the last 1 1/2 of MJ's life, he was MJ's lover. Of course, by this time, MJ was dead. The whole thing lasted about 3 mts and the guy disapppeared. Just another person who saw the chance to get his 15 minutes of fame. Back to Alex and other greys who are being worked with. Training-----This a fact. There's a few ways to teach a grey how to talk. One is by association throughout the day. The bird sees things that are going on, hears others say or do things concerning what's going on and repeats what it heard or saw when it actually happens. Another way to teach a bird how to talk is by direct face to face repititation of words whether they refer or not to anything. It's up to the person concerning how to do it. When a person uses the latter method, a grey ( especially a grey) will at first show great interest and then lose interest in what's going on in about 10 to 20 minutes and they will show obvious body language. It's a clue for the person to stop. The bird doesn't get aggressive. He simply turns around and walks away. Sometimes, he yawns. So, does anyone really know what the training regimen was for Alex? Other birds and people's personal relationship to a bird-- I'm sure that countless people have seen that tall, thin woman who has appeared on several late night entertainment shows with a grey called Einstein. The bird does everything by association and does it well. A personal tie to that person? She doesn't even own that bird. She's also appeared on the same type of shows with an amazon that performs other types of things by association and does it well. She also doesn't own that bird. She's a professional bird handler. Who can we thank for our deep more informative knowledge concerning chimpanzees? Dr Jane Goodall spent 20 yrs living with them making sure that very personal ties to most of those chimps didn't develop. She wasn't alone. At the least there was a cameraman there. That's how complete information was gotten. But in the end, she too felt sadness that a few died for different reasons. She knew them well. They knew her well.

"""""And the "wanna go back" broke my heart!"""""""" Her main goal was learn about and study parrot behavior in as many areas as she could and then pass them on.. How many here have or had a 5 or 6 yr old child that said a similar type of sentence as the above? Just because the child said it, did you simply give in and let the child get it's wish or desire? I used to basically say the same type of thing to my mother when I was that age ""Ma, I don't wanna go to school today"". Ma, I don't wanna eat those vegetables"" Well, I was unsuccessful and mom won out. I went to school and ate my vegetables AND I was pissed!! Concerning videos that can be seen with her and him, understand that she had complete control over videos that would be made public and ones that wouldn't. I doubt very much that she would allow any video that would show cruel behavior towards that bird. There was a reason. The bird was being obstinent like a child and was told to continue which he did in videos. After all, a grey is supposed to have the intelligence of a 5 yr old, right?

Alex was what you would call one of the most socialized parrots in captivity. We all widsh our greys were socialized as well as him.The bird was integrated with many people that worked with Dr P. She started that process when he was very young and she wasn't the only person that worked with the bird. There was approx 8 to 10 people with him all the time. He was handled by all and there were no problems. Many grey owners just wish their grey would like the husband or the wife or the kids. He got along with all of them. He never really had to focus on one particular person as the prime emotional caregiver. He could have been taken to seminars by a number of those people that were involved with him. Actually, the bird was more spoiled than most. He got everything he wanted. He was fed the best of everything. He was a bird that had a very stable, passive nature and was always willing to participate in different training regimens. That couldn't have happened with just any grey. She just happened to come across a bird that had that nature. He was never left alone. Many say that his small plucking problem was due to what went on throughout his life in that lab. Actually, it's documented that the bird was a chronic plucker from the age of 2 and the problem remained that way. Most chronic pluckers remain that way throughout their whole life. He wasn't made to suffer in that lab. If so, nothing would have succeeded with him. He died at the age of 31 and the simple cause was hardening of the arteries. One day he was fine, the next day he was lying at the bottom of his cage. I can't tell you how many times I've seen that happen.

Jayd Please don't misunderstand what I said about people not using palm oil and their birds not having any problems. Why aren't many of those birds having little or no problems? Because people are constantly searching for other products that will contain those same nutrients. I was only referring to people who couldn't find or purchase it. I don't believe red palm oil is a hype. I think it's one of the best things that can be fed to an african grey IF it can be found and purchased. We have a listing here of a certain place that has huge supplies of the palm oil at very decent prices. It's a huge vitamin supply house and many people have since ordered from that place. Unfortunately, people can't buy it in certain countries. It's even harder to get red palm nuts. In those countries it's easy for them to get the nuts but not the oil and in this country it's just the opposite. The contents and importance of red palm oil for african greys is well documented. Both the palm nuts and the palm oil which surrounds the nuts are essential to greys in the wild. They have the most important essential vitamins that a grey needs. Wanna find out where all the greys are living in their native country? Just find out where all the red palm nut trees are located and you'll spot them AND they're not the only species of parrot that eats palm nuts and oil.

To the person who just found the canola oil and wants to know how much to use----yes, some parrot seeds have miniscule amounts of natural unprocessed oil in them, but we didn't invent the amount that's in those seeds. Store bought canola is processed and chemicals are used to grow the plant. Some of those chemicals are pesticides. The largest amount of oil that's found in seeds is in the sunflower seed that only wild outside types of birds eat. These birds aren't the types that can be kept as pets and are usually small birds that eat at feeders. It's well known that one of the worst seeds to give to parrots is that type of sunflower seed because of the heavy concentration of oils in it . It can cause serious problems in parrots but not in those outside birds. The oil that's highly recommended for greys is palm oil but many people can't get it and some people are willing to try out other products that other people use that aren't recommended for parrots which may not be a good idea. Think long and hard before deciding to put a concentrated product on food that already contains the natural and proper amount of other oils in it. If I wasn't able to get palm oil, I feel that it's better for me to not use any oil rather than one that isn't approved for parrots. Hundreds of people don't feed palm oil to their birds and their birds have no problems. Red palm oil has 2 main properties in it which only do 2 things----It gives VIT A & VIT E to a grey which they need. It's their natural staple in the wild. The most common thing you're gonna see concerning canola oil in different sites is the fact that canola oil doesn't have any VIT E in it which a grey needs . Look at many sites concerning canola oil. You'll find very few sites that speak about giving concentrated canola oil to parrots. The facts about canola in 98% of all sites will eventually refer towards people and the good and bad of using canola oil in cooking and as salad dressings and as substitutes for butter, margarine . One or two conflicting articles only convinces me to do one thing--stay away from it. It'll be extremely hard to find any articles that are lengthy and deal strictly with parrots and them eating it in concentrated form. Canola oil can't be thinned out for animal use nor is it discussed as far as feeding it to parrots as a basic additive to their food.

Main page--go to Health room and read the top 14 or 15 threads about health situations and also much info on different diseases. Those are Stickys and just about every section on the board has different kinds. Those stickys are there permanently there.

Almost all parrot diseases are gotten externally and others that are internally formed are passed from parent to chick so vaccines aren't necessary. Please read the above stickys concerning different diseases.

There's really no such thing as standard *training treats*. It could be anything from normal stuff to the oddest stuff. That's just a matter of you first finding out what he can't resist. He flies to your arm/hand when you show your arm. That's what many people would like to achieve but it's difficult. You've passed that point so you're lucky. As far as him flying around you when you don't want him to and he lands where you don't like it, there's only one basic repetitive thing you must do----constantly and immediately put your bird back where he was, over and over. It'll take time but birds eventually get the idea. You can't train him to not land on your head. You can watch what he's doing and when he flies, put your arm in that area. All of this has to come before the *command* training begins. There has to be a starting point. He's not flying on your head to annoy you. He just wants to be with you and very young birds will do all of these things. The flattest, biggest, safest place is where they head to. Some birds will fly to a person's arm and when they land, they'll bite at the hand or fingers to balance themselves but some birds just won't let go. Your bird may not do this but for some people, a treat may temporarily stop him from biting but after the treat he may do it again to get another treat etc etc. SO, a person simply has to slightly shake their hand/arm so that the bird loses balance. Doing that quite a few times stops a bird from biting. So, just remember that there has to be a starting piont. ***He climbs on me now, just not on command.*** That's something that all parrots do. The first place they head to is the highest point (shoulder) and you can't train him to go up or down. It's just another situation where you have to remove him from areas that annoy you.

What's the training you're talking about?